Telling people that thier idea won't work the way they're doing it.

[Harold Mansfield]

One of the hardest things about building websites for people who think they have a great idea is getting them to understand that they haven't thought it through. You don't want to discourage people, but some are very unrealistic about how much it takes to make something work online.

Everyone looks at the end result of successes, and most never give any thought to the path that they took to get there, or the amount of resources that it takes to actually run and grow it.

Personally, if asked my opinion I will tell them what I know, what I've done and how certain things work. Once that is done, I'm still going to build the site for them, the way they want it, and give it 110%. After all it's their money and they are the boss.

It's especially difficult when you're dealing with someone who is successful in one area of business and thinks that is enough to dominate another....with no experience, education or knowledge of the industry. I used to go through this all of the time with new bar owners here in Vegas.

My question is, if it were you..would you be appreciative that someone is trying to steer you in the right direction?
If so, what would it take for someone to get you to actually listen?

[tinker9696]

I'm a logical person and usually a good listener especially if someone has expertise that I don't. I respond well to comparisons both numbers wise and visually. So if someone shows me a website that they think is inefficient vs showing me one that they believe is efficient I than have something to see with my own eyes. I will also ask the questions about why and see if I agree as the consumer to what you are seeing. My web site is a perfect example...I loved our old one that my husband put together and than we had it professionally done. Its very new so I wont be able to see if it has helped for a few months. I feel comfortable when I feel I am being heard and that the person doing the work understands my mission.

[KristineS]

I'm willing to listen. That said, I'm more willing to listen to someone who is open to hearing my ideas and willing to consider things. I'm not as open to people who simply tell me it can't be done, full stop. That said, I'd always prefer to hear from someone I'm paying that my idea won't work and here's why, rather than them just doing the work and taking my money and leaving me with something that won't do what I want it to do.

[Harold Mansfield]

Lately I'm seeing more and more people who spent a lot of time figuring out the look and style that they want, but haven't given much thought to the logistics of how the company will run. It's hard to put together a website that is supposed to generate leads, or even all of the sales if you have no idea of any logistics or processes.

How am I supposed to built a shopping cart for your products, if you don't even know what options you're going to make available?
How am I supposed to build a lead capture area, if I have no copy explaining what the company actually does?

That kind of thing.

[justin-coreassistance]

My question is, if it were you..would you be appreciative that someone is trying to steer you in the right direction?

Yes, as long as the following two things are true:


I feel that you have my best interests in mind.
I feel that you have worthwhile knowledge/expertise in the area being discussed.



If so, what would it take for someone to get you to actually listen?

Over the years I've found that people don't just want to hear what's best, they want to why it's best. Telling them how something should be done is one thing, but backing that up with a clear, understandable explanation of why is so much more productive. This will often result in a discussion that achieves a number of beneficial goals for both you and the client.

One of the most important things I've learned is to frame explanations in the context of how the approach you're advocating helps them. I've made the mistake of explaining too much by focusing on points that clients simply don't care about. For example, if a client wanted their website to have a bright yellow background with Comic Sans for the text, I would approach the subject by explaining the merits of readability, accessibility, and the benefits of appearing professional. I would avoid bringing up the stigma surrounding that particular font in the tech/design community, as they likely wouldn't care, and it might even make them defensive or more determined (after all, many businesses succeed by doing things differently).

Another thing that helps a lot is having a better alternative that they can see or touch. Don't just tell them that a muted yellow color/pattern with a pleasant serif font would be easier to read, more inviting, still be on brand, and appear more professional; show them. And here's the key: it doesn't have to be a polished, functional demonstration. A quick and dirty static image comp is usually enough. As designers we tend to want to only show people things when they're close to done, but there's a lot of value in just getting stuff out there. It doesn't look nearly as horrible to others as it does to you. :)

[Harold Mansfield]

Yeah, I usually do that. I tell people clearly why it won't work, and then give them alternatives that have a better chance.
When possible, I also give them examples of why.

You can't just tell people all negative stuff. You have to give them explanations and options. And also, every now and then you don't sweat the small stuff. Let them have a huge RSS button like ti's 2003 if that's what they want. They'll get tired of it and remove it soon.

[BrandGeek]

Over the years, I've learned to decline doing business with anyone who isn't ready or doesn't want to hear our recommendations. When I worked as a creative director in radio stations, sales reps would bring in any client they could. The result: frequently having to deal with clients who (a) simply hadn't thought through their business model yet and weren't ready to advertise, or (b) had decided they knew better than we did, and refused to accept documented steps to success. Now that we have our own agency, we simply turn down anyone who shows any evidence of being either unready or contrary. Life is too short to spend it in conflict just for a buck. I know people who are happy to take on these accounts, and I'm happy to refer them. We just don't need the work at the price.

That said, when you find yourself working with a client unwilling to listen, three very powerful words are: "As you know..." For instance, "As you know, anyone who tries to do it that way falls on their face." It becomes difficult for anyone to negate you.

[huggytree]

I believe in letting the pro do his job

I wouldn't like you telling me how to run the plumbing in your house, just like you wouldn't want me telling you how to do my website.

tell my customers how it is...sometimes its harsh...I stomp on their idea's and crush their dreams.....custom shower systems is a good example...they want 10 shower heads....they don't think through what it takes to get there....when they find out they need $6k in multiple water heaters and a new well pump and system costing $5k they come back to earth.....I assume its a similar thing with websites.....

I have my idea of what my website should be......its there right now and my calls went up 10x.........that doesn't mean I chose the best possible plan/layout.....id expect a Pro like YOU Harold to help me out and steer me...

Im a believer of letting a customer go if its not a good match....as a business owner its your reputation on the line...if the customer asks for garbage and wont change you need to move on and fire them....in my own business ive done it a few times....I refuse to install some junk brand name shower valves....I know the homeowner wont be happy, they will give me call backs asking for me to fix it

customers never blame themselves for problems they create.....

I say Let the Pro do his job!

[Harold Mansfield]

I believe in letting the pro do his job

I wouldn't like you telling me how to run the plumbing in your house, just like you wouldn't want me telling you how to do my website.

tell my customers how it is...sometimes its harsh...I stomp on their idea's and crush their dreams.....custom shower systems is a good example...they want 10 shower heads....they don't think through what it takes to get there....when they find out they need $6k in multiple water heaters and a new well pump and system costing $5k they come back to earth.....I assume its a similar thing with websites.....


That's actually a great example of what I'm talking about.

[Jordan Miller]

You just have to be really direct with clients without being rude, it seems like MANY people have no idea where they are going with their business and just jump into the water without knowing how to swim. Probably a big reason alot of the businesses that wemay design for fail.

[huggytree]

fine line between being direct and rude

I find being very direct with customers over things gives you the reputation of being the honest guy

[Brian Altenhofel]

fine line between being direct and rude

I find being very direct with customers over things gives you the reputation of being the honest guy

Yep.

I've had a couple of projects where I was told I was hired because I was pretty blunt in my assessment of why their original plan wasn't going to work. I had one ask my why I took that route when the other four developers they'd talked to just wanted to do as they were asked.

"I don't need your business, but if I have your business then the success of your business has a direct effect on the success of my business."