Question to Web/Tech Folks

[CCAdamson]

I recently started my own business and it has nothing to do with technology or web design or the like but I may have an interesting opportunity ahead of me and wanted to get your thoughts.

I have a very good acquaintance who does some web design and other stuff (I don't know much about any of this) and she does it for an employer part time and then on her own in her free time. She has mentioned more than once about being 100% own her own but she has no desire to sell/market her services. She is very good at what she does, at least to my eye but doesn't want to nor can she promote herself very well.

So the thought I had was this, I was thinking about striking a deal with her. I could do the selling on her behalf (I of course would need some education) we could meet with potential clients as needed together and I could be more of a spokesperson. Then if she makes a deal it would be at her agreed rate and I would take a small percentage for doing leg work.

So for you guys who are doing this on you own do you think that would be something you would be interested in if you were in her shoes? Again, I am only thinking this because she wants to be on her own but at the same times she isn't much of a people person.

[Freelancier]

This one is going to come down to money. How much can she possibly make in a year, how much of that can you make if every customer pays on time and is satisfied, and whether that's enough money for you to be happy.

Let's say she gets paid $50/hour. On average a good consultant will work about 1400 hours a year if they're full-time busy (that's out of 2000 potential hours, which few consultants can get to just because you don't leave yourself time to do the little things to run your business).

Ok, so at that full-employment level, she can make $70,000. Normal salesperson can take anywhere from 20-30% of that. Let's say 20% just so you can see how the numbers work. So if you sell everything and she stays 100% busy, now her income is reduced to, say, $56,000 while your income is all of $14000. And that's for the year. At 30%, the numbers are $49K and $21K.

I don't see how this makes it a good deal for either of you.

From my experience, the only way a salesperson gets a good deal is if the selling income is on top of their own work OR they are selling 3 or more people who are working full time.

[Harold Mansfield]

My opinion, there's no way to be in business for yourself and avoid learning or doing anything that has to do with sales or marketing.
That's not an entrepreneur's mentality, that's an employee mentality.

She can't even train you to be effective because she has no framework or experience on which to teach you.

It takes more than just being good at what you do to run your own business. You have to also learn and be good at knowing how to get yourself paying customers.

I don't think this would be a beneficial relationship for you or her.

[billbenson]

I agree with both of the above comments. My first impression after reading your post was what Freelancer had to say. 'Where's the money'.

And to reiterate what Harold had to say, everything in life takes sales skills. From picking up girls, to selling stocks. You need sales skills. If you have an ugly wife, you are either a lousy sales person or you saw something else in her you liked.

[HooktoWin]

CCAdamson, I agree with Freelancier, Harold and Bill. When I started out I did it; the same exact thing you're thinking about doing.

My partner already had a small side business. He worked for an employer but he wasn't getting anywhere. He was interested in going out on his own so we decided to partner up.
I've worked with my partner for 10 years and we're (still) close.Still, if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it.

We were going in two different directions. Our mindsets couldn't be more different.
He was the designer, I was the marketer. I knew how to sell and we won our first client in a few days after starting up.

Our client was happy. Were starting to get more work. But then our conflicting mindsets began to get in the way.


I wanted to set a budget for ads. My partner refused.
I wanted to create our own templates and framework (before anyone was an established leader). My partner refused.
I suggested we hire people when our workload grew to be too large. My partner refused.
When the workload was too large, he accepted the money then asked for us to hire someone.
The large business loan we took out to expand the business, instead ended up covering...payroll.
We built our own web analytics tool; in the very early days of Google Analytics and we were doing amazing things, my partner suddenly decided it was too much work and dropped out of the project, killing it.

Over and over and over, we butted heads on seemingly insignificant issues; family tried to sabotage us.
Once our agency was firmly established and working with some big clients, my partner started putting in part time effort (while demanding full time pay).

I thought this was just due to the fact that I choose wrong. But I've realized it was more than that.

We weren't pulling together. It became me pulling and carrying everything. We were doing well, but I started to get burned out.

Don't misunderstand, this is less about designers and more about the mindset. There are plenty of designers who are business-minded like you.
These are the A players who will put in the hard work to make things a success. But typically, those with an employee mindset, function very, very differently.

The upside to my story is the fact that my partner, more than 8 years after we started, finally, finally "got it" and started to turn things around.
But the learning process was brutal, expensive and extremely painful. We lost a lot of money in the beginning and the struggle was unbelievable.

All because of this mindset mismatch.

Your acquaintance has given you the same, exact warning signs I received when I started.
What you choose to do with it is up to you.

If you decide to partner up, know that you're in for a lot of pain and frustration.
If you walk away you may miss out on the chance to make some thing great, but you're also very, very likely to crash and burn.

Know what you're getting into.

Andrew


P.S. My experience isn't unique. I've known half a dozen people whose partnerships have suffered (and lost) for the same reasons (not to mention the long list of nightmare stories online).

[CCAdamson]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. Let me clarify a couple things and see if that makes a difference.

My company is in the consulting world, specifically HR and Safety but I planned for a large umbrella of services. My thought was that she could offer her services under my umbrella. That would allow my name to get out there more and she would be getting work. Initially it isn't about money (for me anyhow) it is about recognition.

I agree 100% that she needs to be able to sell her self if she wants to succeed on her own and if she can learn to be a salesperson while working with me then she can go do her own thing if she wants.

I don't know if that changes anyone's thoughts about this idea or not but I figured I should at least fill let you know where my mind was going.

Thank you

[Harold Mansfield]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. Let me clarify a couple things and see if that makes a difference.

My company is in the consulting world, specifically HR and Safety but I planned for a large umbrella of services. My thought was that she could offer her services under my umbrella. That would allow my name to get out there more and she would be getting work. Initially it isn't about money (for me anyhow) it is about recognition.

I agree 100% that she needs to be able to sell her self if she wants to succeed on her own and if she can learn to be a salesperson while working with me then she can go do her own thing if she wants.

I don't know if that changes anyone's thoughts about this idea or not but I figured I should at least fill let you know where my mind was going.

Thank you


Nope. Doesn't change my opinion one bit. There are a ton of web services middle men out there and it's not as easy as you think to sell a service that you know nothing about.
However, I have a feeling that's not going to stop you and it shouldn't if you believe in it.

As to your other question, would I ever be interested in this type of arrangement? Of course not. I like sales and marketing. Why would I get involved with a middle man who brings nothing to the table except taking a cut?

[CCAdamson]

Thank you. You are wrong about one thing. Your opinions may stop me. I am not totally committed to this yet myself. So reading all the feedback here will definitely factor into whether to pursue this or not.

I too would not want a middleman for anything. I was trying to think of way that both of us could possibly benefit. The points that you all have made are certainly steering me away from this though.