Finding potential employees?

[turboguy]

The thread about background checks made me think about another topic that I will post here. I know we have a lot of one man businesses but for those with employees when you need to hire how do you find potential employees.

I will talk a bit about what I have tried in the past.

Way back before the internet was what it became we used our local newspaper with good results. I have still used it on occasion but the results have been so-so and it is not cheap.

Mostly for a laborer type job I have been using CraigsList. I can't say I get as many applicants as I would like but our labor market is tight and we pay peanuts (more about that later) Generally I have found someone on Craigslist but if there is a better choice I would like to know it.

I have had a few occasions where I have hired someone I knew. I bowl on a Monday night league and have actually hired two people from that league. If you can hire someone you know this can be a good way but it isn't something that is easy to do.

I had one time when I was hiring a plant manager that I used Monster dot com which I hear little about these days and don't even know if it exists any more. I did get 85 highly qualified applicants from that source but it was a higher paying job. I actually hired two from that listing but fired the first one after 3 days. He was a former manager of a steel mill that used to be next to my business and was more yell at everyone constantly and threaten to fire them and make sure they towed the line which is not a management style that suits my business or my philosophy of how to run a business.

I hear a lot of radio ads for some hiring groups such as Indeed dot com and zip recruiter. I have never used these and wonder if anyone here has ever tried them? Another option could be LinkedIn but I don't see that as being effective for laborer type jobs but more for sales or management type jobs.

One of the things that hurts us in jobs postings is that our pay is low but we have a lot of incentives that add to it. Typically we start an assembly person at $ 11.00 and a welder or painter at $ 12.00 but have a production bonus that adds a couple of bucks an hour and we have profit sharing at the end of the year which last year averaged about 4K per employee. They seem to like getting one big check that lets them do something big and we like that it is tied into our profits and if the economy ever goes south or our business falls off it will cut our costs. The drawback is when advertising they really only pay attention to the hourly rate which makes our listing less appealing. We do also provide health, dental and vision coverage and pay 75% of that cost.

One last thing I will add before I post this is the reason we went with a production bonus. Way back when we started we just had an hourly wage and our productivity was terrible. As an example I tracked the time to build one machine at 125 hours. We now built that machine in 10 hours. The guys were trying to stretch out the work so they would not run out of work. At first I came with the idea that each machine out the door would add $ 35.00 to each workers pay and things started to fly out the door. Our system now is a bit different but when I go back to the production area everyone is always working and everyone tries to get as much production as possible. The production bonus has been highly effective.

[Owen]

I'm in the middle of starting an internet company. I started a new job far away from my home as well, so I'm forced to get an apartment or make a 4-hour drive every day. I specifically posted saying I want a roommate that is fluent in Javascript and Node.js who would also be open to helping me develop the application. After interviewing about twenty different people, I found a guy who works at Hubspot who loves the idea and wants to help me.

I've tried to use Indeed which is the new Monster.com and it works much better in my opinion.

[Bobjob]

We used a local staffing agency for a bookkeeper, and I was attempting to use a local labor agency to find someone to do my assembly, logistics, inventory management etc. My accountant showed me that the labor hire would only be working about 20 of the 40 hours I would be paying them and asked me to consider alternatives. I'm older, and I guess there is value in me not hurting myself in the warehouse. I was hoping for a Latin so I could work on my Spanish when work was slow. No one wants to work part time. Minimum wage here is $7.25 I was offering $12 ($15 with labor agency fee) no benefits. We give bonus and are easy when someone needs time off or to run an errand.

Property across the street from the fabrication shop that has done work for us (for about 25 years) is available. I hope I can get it. This way I will not have to drive 30min there and back to delivery work to them, and maybe it will create an alternative for me with regards to hiring someone.

[turboguy]

Bobjob, one of the toughest things about growing a business when it isn't big is justifying adding workers. What I mean by that is if you have one welder for example and he can't quite keep up, if you hire a second welder then there isn't enough to keep both busy. One option is to hire someone part time but part time workers are hard to find. If on the other hand you have 10 welders and they can't keep up hiring one more may be an easy answer. This is about what you are running into. You need someone but don't have quite enough work for them.

One of the things I struggle with are workers we could use but can't quite justify. I could really use an engineer but don't have enough work for one so I do that and it is not a field where I have much expertise or experience but do manage to get the things done that need to be done. We could really use someone to manage our web sites and social media but good people in that field are expensive and hard to find so I do that. I could get tempted on this one of these days if I could find someone.

I never liked using a agency. Mostly it doesn't take much more time to find a good person myself and the fees just aren't worth it. We did just hire two welders this week. I miss the old days when times were tough in our area and if you ran an ad you would be swamped with applicants. I ran an ad in Craigslist and did get three applicants who applied and hired two of them. If that had not worked I was going to try zip recruiter or indeed which Owen suggested but we did get enough applicants. My plant manger was skeptical that we would find anyone since most of the welder ads on CL that listed a wage were in the over $ 20.00 range. We bumped our pay up this year to $ 13.00 plus a production bonus that averages more than 2 bucks an hour plus profit sharing at the end of the year which last year averaged about 4K per employee. So effectively we are paying about $ 16.00 an hour but I do think a lot of applicants don't see anything but the $ 13.00. Both of the guys we hired were making about $ 11.00 an hour in their former job. We may have to add another person or two soon which I am not looking forward to.

[PerceptionHCC]

Turboguy, Indeed is a bare bones easy to navigate platform, and is the largest search engine in regards to postings and job seeker traffic. Probably the best solution for what you are looking for. You can build in some screening questions that will help you sift through applicants, and ads can be tailored to sell the job and some of the perks offered. Each add can be specific.

There are some other ways to manage the needs of the business without adding headcount and fixed expense. Let me know if you want to discuss, happy to chat.

Best,

Patrick

[turboguy]

Thanks Patrick, Well since we are going to fire one of the welders we just hired I may be back in the hiring market again. The guy we are firing was a good worker when he bothered to show up but seems to have a major problem showing up particularly on the day after he gets paid. I haven't even looked at Indeed but may try that if we decide to replace the one we are firing. I don't think there is any way to manage our business without adding to the headcount and fixed expense. Mostly what we need done is in the category of work and I don't know of any substitute for something like a welder when you need something welded. I am always happy to look at options however.

[PerceptionHCC]

No worries Ray! In regards to adding headcount to the welders, that may be unavoidable, but to support the back end pieces it is much easier sometimes to contract some of those projects out as the needs arise, and saves you fixed cost while you are scaling up.

[turboguy]

Well I started this thread a while back when we were looking for a welder. The welder we hired then just turned in his two week notice and instead if driving for 40 minutes here has a new job a stone's throw from his home for a a little more money. So once again I need to hire a welder.

The last time I tried CraigsList and got about 3 applicants. I had talked about ZipRecruiter and Indeed and since I just got a coupon that said "post a job for free on ZipRecruiter decided to give it a whirl. So their "generous" offer to post a free ad lets you post one for about 4 days after which you are charged $ 369.00 a month for the premium plan or $ 269.00 a month for the basic no frills plan. I opted for the premium plan. I do intend to cancel before being charged. So far it has been 24 hours and I have heard nothing from it. I will keep everyone informed if I do actually get some prospects.

In the late winter or early spring of next year I will need to add 2-3 people and may try Indeed before falling back to CraigsList. I will also post a review or information on how that works if I try it.

[Paul]

Are there any trade publications (or sites) for that industry where you could post an ad? Or are there welding schools where you could grab a newly trained welder?

[turboguy]

There are a lot of trade publications but they would be nationwide and not local. We have occasionally had luck getting welding interns from our local trade school that generally have stayed a while. The first one we had was really good but left for a union pipe fitting job starting at $ 28.00 an hour. The last one we had wasn't worth much but also left eventually. We have two trade schools but neither is close so a lot of the students are not that close. We actually have an intern at the moment but not for welding. He is from the one trade school but is a 3D cad (SolidWorks) guy. We have about enough to keep him busy for the 360 hours his internship requires but we will have everything we could ever need done by the time he finishes. We also just added a college student for the summer. That may help a bit but still need to do something about a welder. So far no results from ZipRecruiter.

[enevins87]

Interesting question as I'd never really thought about where to find laborers. As some others have said most sites, including LinkedIn seem more focused on sales and professional jobs.

That being said, I poked around and these sites came up:

- Labor Finders (https://www.laborfinders.com/industries/employers/)

- I Hire Manufacturing (https://www.ihiremanufacturing.com/)

Good luck! Let me know how you do.

[turboguy]

Thanks for the suggestion evevins. I may try that route. Those seem to be employment agencies and I have usually shied away from using one thinking that it was an expensive way to do what I could do on my own probably better but may give that a shot. I do have one similar company that calls me every month or so asking if we need anyone. I may give them a try when we are ready to make a number of hires in the late winter/early spring.

This year has been a real pain to go through. We just can't produce quick enough. We have actually shipped far less even though our orders are in line with last year and may end up growing quite a bit. Unit orders in May were up 50% from last year. We had however been running a bit behind last year through April. (that could be weather related since we had a late winter and our product is dependent on decent weather).

As far as ZipRecruiter goes not a single prospect yet. I need to cancel it tomorrow or be charged.

[turboguy]

Just as a follow up I just cancelled the free trial at ZipRecruiter and had zero responses. I was not impressed with ZR and would not waste my time trying it again. I just posted on CraigsList. I miss the old days of a few years ago when we ran an ad we would have swarms of people applying. We would often have 3 people in filling out applications at the same time and would get 20-40 applicants. I think the last time we had 3.

[enevins87]

Thanks for the insight on ZipRecruiter and sorry it was such a failure. Will note that for the future.

[Bobjob]

Turbo, do you do you own background checks? I believe staffing agencies do.

What do you believe has changed in your area from having many applicants to not having many?

I appreciate your Guinea Pigging these online staffing options for us. We just interviewed a potential who was slightly older and skinnier than I hoped. But he had a very mechanical background, which is a huge plus. He was coming off a much higher paying job so I do not know he will consider working for us.

[turboguy]

We usually don't do background checks. Sometimes we look someone up on FaceBook but that is about all we do. We have done drug testing in the past but not lately. We do say in our ads the applicant must be able to pass a drug test which may deter a few who would not pass.

Our area was at one time highly depressed. Back in the 1980's we had lots of steel mills that all shut down. We had an unemployment rate of close to 20%. I will share a little story here. Back then I needed a part time secretary. I called the newspaper and said I wanted to run a help wanted ad and said I wanted it to read like this. "Part time secretary, 2-3 days a week, + phone number" The girl I was giving my ad to said "You can't do that. You don't want to list your phone number. You are making a big mistake. Just use a box number". I told her that a lot of the job is answering the phone and I really like to hear how they do on the phone. She said OK and the ad started Friday evening. I came into the office on Saturday morning and when I walked in all three lines were ringing. As fast as I hung up on one line it would start ringing again. I ended up calling and cancelling the ad and had 135 interviews set up by a little after noon that day. At the same time the Post office ran a little ad for a letter carrier and had 500 people in line when they opened their doors and ended up with 2000 applicants.

Our economy did get better after that but until lately we would get 10-20 applicants for a job. After I cancelled my ZipRecruiter ad for a welder I put one on CraigsList. It has been up for almost a week and we have had 3 applicants. One of which is a woman who really hasn't welded. Two said they were interested but would not be at the pay rate we advertised. More about this in the next paragraph.

We have always relied a lot on bonus and profit sharing as part of our compensation package. Early on we had trouble with productivity. When we put the bonus in the productivity issues ended right away. We have always had a low basic rate but a decent return in total. For example one welder we have has a base pay rate of around $ 13.50 an hour but made 40K last year which if you figure the real hourly rate works out to $ 21.40 per hour. My plant manager has a base rate of around $ 17.00 an hour but made 70K which works out to $ 34.60 an hour. I think some of our problem is when you list a lower basic pay and talk about the bonus it is too abstract. We had the starting pay listed in our ad at $ 13.00 + bonus + profit sharing. Our two applicants that had some ability both wanted $ 15.00. They are willing to take $ 15.00 with no bonus so that is what we are offering them and just to see if it has any more appeal I just changed our ad to read $ 15.00 with no mention of a bonus. I am curious to see if we get better results. When you look at ads for welders you can see anything from $ 12.00 an hour up to well over $ 20.00. Some of the high paying welder jobs are pretty difficult. Our job is not all that difficult.

[Bobjob]

Maybe you can change the bonus to a signing bonus or offer a six month signing bonus? This way they will be in your system long enough to understand the benefit of the production bonus/profit sharing.

Craigslist welding jobs down here - I didn't find any starting under $20.

[turboguy]

Usually the ones that are lower pay just don't list the pay. We have lots up here that are starting at $ 20.00 an hour as well. It was only a few years ago that I could get tons of applicants for welders at $ 10.00 an hour but those days have passed.

[Paul]

Usually the ones that are lower pay just don't list the pay. We have lots up here that are starting at $ 20.00 an hour as well. It was only a few years ago that I could get tons of applicants for welders at $ 10.00 an hour but those days have passed.

I'm sure you have thought of all this but maybe rather than listing an hourly rate be a little ambiguous. "Competitive pay" "compensation based on experience", or as you explained the annual pay turns out to be more than hourly so perhaps "$ 30,000 - $ 50,000" (whatever it may be). Bonus program, performance incentives, advancement, career opportunity etc..


Anything to get them in front of you. You can then negotiate depending on how you feel about them. I'm sure you have done all that but just a few thoughts.

[turboguy]

One of the other issues is keeping our existing employees happy. With the last welder we were just able to hire we dropped the bonus from our compensation program and upped the base pay by two bucks an hour. Now one welder who has been with me for quite some time is complaining that the new guy gets about the same pay (base rate) as he does. Still when you add the production bonus and profit sharing he is making $ 22.00 an hour. Actually that gave our existing employees a raise they don't even know about since his work with goes to their bonus.

If I go too high on the pay rate for new hires all my existing employees are going to want a major raise. Even my plant manager is complaining and he made nearly 80K last year.

We did have one new welder start this past Monday and are interviewing one other. If we can hire two we are ok. We also may add one assembly guy who just happened to stop in.

We got a temp for a month or so to help keep up but it turned out to be a dud. He hit a customers pickup with the fork lift last week and this week messed up a machine he was packing for shipment. That was the last straw with him.

Sometimes running a business is a pain and this is a particularly PIA year. We are way backed up on orders and have too many upset people calling about when they are going to get their order. I guess it is better than having the opposite problem but you like to keep your customers happy.

[Bobjob]

I am going to piggy back this post to ask a question a hiring question.

I am attempting to find an employee to do my job of inventory management, assembly, packaging, logistics and other warehouse duties. My initial idea was to hire a young strong laborer who I didn't have to pay much. I want someone young because I hope to keep them for a couple decades. I'm 45 and usually exhausted every day, though I have an idea that my exhaustion is from doing double duty of office and warehouse.

I spoke with a friend who said I should consider hiring a more professional person (someone with a degree) and pay them more than I was planning paying a hire. This way they could transition to a part of my office work (talking to customers) easily and my input to the business would be minimal and revolve around marketing, advertising and such.

Thought and opinions are appreciated.

[Fulcrum]

That's a lot of duties for one person. People who can handle that much variety/multitasking are few and far between. I was that guy at one time.


My initial idea was to hire a young strong laborer who I didn't have to pay much.

Pay whatever the person is worth. Low wages can usually equal low quality. Fair wages with a good work environment will bring in a higher class of worker.


I spoke with a friend who said I should consider hiring a more professional person (someone with a degree)

I've worked with both degreed and non-degreed people and can't say I've noticed too much of a difference other than attitudes.

Hire slow, fire fast. Don't settle for just anyone other than one who can handle the work and is a good fit for the company.

[Bobjob]

It is not as bad as it sounds. My accountant had me add up my average warehouse hours and it is only about 20 hours a week. I could keep them busy early on as we will be moving soon and I would want them to set up the shop to their liking. But the thought of paying someone 12-16 (our minimum wage is 7.25) an hour for 40 hours when they work 20 is kinda depressing. I've been trying to convince myself it is worth it for my physical and mental health. We offer a great work environment but no health insurance. Trying to find a part-time employee is as difficult as trying to find full time.

I thought I might could locate a degreed person (draftsman / graphic artist / computer person) who could also have a side gig while working here, but everyone tells me that is a bad idea and the more I think about it I agree with them.

"Hire slow, fire fast. Don't settle for just anyone other than one who can handle the work and is a good fit for the company." I appreciate that you said this because it is the mentality I've had going though this process.

[Fulcrum]

I could keep them busy early on as we will be moving soon and I would want them to set up the shop to their liking. But the thought of paying someone 12-16 (our minimum wage is 7.25) an hour for 40 hours when they work 20 is kinda depressing.

Have you considered bringing on some complementary products that could bump the hours of the hire to 40/week?

[Bobjob]

Thats true, I do plan on working with the fabrication shop next door to make some complementary parts. Maybe I will not get 40 out of them in the first year. I am probably over thinking the issue - that's my MO.

[Melanie O]

Try LinkedIn, much less expensive than a recruiter and more targeted than craigslist. It works wonders

[retailjack]

LinkedIn is the way to go for stuff like that. Our business is too small and too retail oriented but I have family that does HR for a big firm that has recruited all types of professionals using LinkedIn's recruiting tools. You can target people who want a specific type of work, have a specific experience and will work for the wage you're advertising. sorry if i am late to the party.

[erin@peoplespark]

Hi Turboguy, You are asking some great questions. This economy certainly has been great for employees, yet the low unemployment and significant gap in skilled trades supply are really a bear for employers. I have not yet found an industry that does not have this same issue (though I doubt that helps to console).

I saw a little bit about bonuses and wanted to throw out another suggestion. Have you considered any sort of employee referral bonus? This would be a bonus to the employee who refers a candidate who might be hired. I like that it gets employees involved in the process, and they don't tend to want to refer people who are going to make their own lives more difficult at work. I've seen this play out the best by offering this to the employee who refers the new hire - it could be $250 or $500 within the first month of the new hire's start date, with another $250 or $500 at the 3-month or 6-month mark. That gives you time to help educate your new hires about the rest of the benefits you offer (such as the bonuses you referred to initially). You could also offer the same bonus (with the same timing) as a new hire bonus as well. It not only helps get someone in the door, but also helps incentivize them to stay. Personally, I like the 6-month one better. You can always bump up the payments (maybe make the 2nd one even more), depending on what you think would work well with your employee population. I hope this helps!

Erin

[turboguy]

Hello Erin,

I have never tried that and it is something I will seriously consider.

So while I am posting in this thread and since I was the OP I will give a little update. Last year when I ran an ad I was lucky to get one applicant. It does seem to be getting a little better. When I run an ad now I get one applicant but usually they are pretty qualified and we have hired that applicant. (actually on one ad I got two applicants but the second came in an hour after I hired the first.

A little over a month ago I was a happy camper. We had hired a welder a few weeks back and hired an assembly guy that Monday and for the first time in ages felt we had all our vacancies filled. The happy days didn't last long. Wednesday of that week the new assembly guy quit. He was older but lots of mechanical ability but even though the work here isn't that hard he did not feel his body was up to the work. The following day the new welder quit.

We did hire the welder back at 3 bucks more an hour than we hired him at and ran an ad and filled the assembly position so for the past 3-4 weeks we have had a full staff.

I always sort of felt the advertising media should match the job you are trying to fill. I think if I were looking for a sales person or management person Linkdin would be the best choice but for something like an assembly guy or a welder I do think CraigsList is the best option. Ages ago I wanted to hire a plant manager and used Monster.com and got 120 applicants. I tend to think they have fallen by the wayside. The world changes fast these days.

[PatrickM]

The solution to the employment problem is how to become the employer of choice in your area so that people want to join your company. When you post an ad there are many applicants!

If welding is a critical element is there a big difference in production output between the best welders and the average? If there is you could have more than one category and then pay the best a premium (ideally linked to their output). A kind of average annual bonus is not very motivating for the best performers.

Also you could consider paying the annual bonus more frequently or adding a "best" performer quarterly bonus. Also there may be other incentives that you could offer - one of the best I've ever seen is complete your quota and take the rest of the week off or carry on working and get paid a premium rate.

[Willie Posey]

Yes, You are not supposed to find employees on Indeed or similar job searching sites who are ready to get laborer kind of jobs. It's better to adopt another method of hiring. You can use news articles, instead!

[turboguy]

I did try indeed about 6 months ago. It was a total failure and I would not touch indeed again with a 10 foot pole. However I do really appreciate the suggestion.