Pets as art

[Bobjob]

I visit a Chinese buffet and they have a large aquarium that is completely black on the inside (black background, black gravel bottom). The fish are large gold fish, and they are illuminated from the lights on the top of the tank. It is dramatically beautiful and hypnotic to watch the fish illuminated in the darkness. I love watching it, but I could never own one because to me it is using live animals for aesthetic purpose. What are y'alls thoughts about this?

[Harold Mansfield]

People have been doing this for centuries with aquariums. I see nothing wrong with it unless the animals are being mistreated it any way. Doesn't sound like that's the case. Just some creative lighting and design. Bet it looks pretty cool.

[SumpinSpecial]

First, what does this have to do with small business?

Second, as a former dog rescue leader/volunteer, I have a thing or two to say about stuff like this. It really, really depends on many factors. If they are providing the fish with all of the things they need for a healthy existence, then there's nothing wrong with it. But most often people don't do the research. Do they keep the water at the right temperature, PH level, and cleanliness? Do they keep it at the right salinity (for saltwater tanks)? Have they researched to find out if the black background and gravel adversely impacts the correct light levels? Also, have they checked to see if the store's lights adversely impact the correct light levels?

And this is just fish. Do NOT get me started on mammals! :D

[Paul]

I suppose one could argue that all creatures, including fish, should live in their natural environment. For dogs and cats I think human homes have become a natural habitat. Who knows if fish know the difference, assuming the tank and care is proper. At least in a tank smaller fish won’t be swallowed by bigger fish!

I do wonder if its humane to keep other critters in cages like rabbits, reptiles and turtles. Maybe they like it and don’t know the difference.

Interesting though that the circus and seaworld are eliminating display and “entertainment” animals and zoos are becoming more and more like natural habitats. As a kid I was always a little sad to see beautiful animals in cages for display at the zoo. I remember going to some lame little so called zoo and seeing an old gorilla in a small cage. It just sat there like it was sad and depressed, that kind of stuck with me, I thought it was terrible. I wondered how many years did it live in that cage.

[Harold Mansfield]

The sad part is that zoos are the only place some animals can be safe because they would be killed in the wild for horns and other parts. There are now species of animals that only exist in captivity because they've been killed off in the wild.

I'm perfectly OK with rescued animals existing in captivity if it's done properly. But it's a catch 22 now.

Last week's 60 Minutes featured a guy who farms Rhinos like cattle and harvest their horns ( without killing the Rhino. They grow back). It's an expensive undertaking and he wants to sell the horns to pay for his expenses and flood the market, making horns less valuable, and killing Rhinos less attractive to poachers. I mean what's the right call on that one? Logically it makes sense, but now you're doing what you were trying to stop. His point is that it's a losing battle and if we keep doing it this way we're going to lose them all forever.

I mean we can't protect all existing Rhinos with armed guards forever. And obviously international bans just makes it more taboo, desirable, and expensive for those who don't give a crap.

Which answer is the right answer?
And why can't wealthy Asian men just take a blue pill like everyone else? It's definitely cheaper.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-rhino-crisis/

[Paul]

You're correct. It is a catch 22. Poachers and trophy hunters are a big problem.


Interesting on the Rhino rancher. I think I like the idea if the Rhinos get to live properly. I had no idea their horns grew back. I wonder how you get a Rhino to cooperate with getting his horn chopped off! I don't think its too good to make a Rhino mad.


I remember seeing a show about poachers killing gorillas for their hands. I remember there was an issue with folks whacking seals for their skins. I have no problem with hunting for meat,(I've eaten plenty of venison and game birds) but trophy hunting for heads and horns seems particularly cruel and unnecessary.

[Harold Mansfield]

I wonder how you get a Rhino to cooperate with getting his horn chopped off! I don't think its too good to make a Rhino mad.


They sedate them. Use a little power saw to take the horn and let go back to roaming around. If you watch the video, the guy has the expense of not just the land, but obviously feed and veterinary staff, security tech and armed guards to keep his own heard safe from poachers. It's costly.

[SumpinSpecial]

I do wonder if its humane to keep other critters in cages like rabbits, reptiles and turtles. Maybe they like it and don’t know the difference.

Interesting though that the circus and seaworld are eliminating display and “entertainment” animals and zoos are becoming more and more like natural habitats. As a kid I was always a little sad to see beautiful animals in cages for display at the zoo. I remember going to some lame little so called zoo and seeing an old gorilla in a small cage. It just sat there like it was sad and depressed, that kind of stuck with me, I thought it was terrible. I wondered how many years did it live in that cage.

I'm not sure about reptiles but mammals and rodents definitely need more than a cage to live in. Humans are pretty arrogant (as a group, not individually) in thinking that just because they're not screaming nonstop doesn't mean they're okay with it. And actually a lot of times when the animal DOES scream, we do things like having laboratory dogs de-barked. Let's not go any further on THAT topic, though.

There is a relatively new branch of science called cognitive ethology that is endeavoring to prove using the scientific method that many different species have more cognitive abilities than we've previously known or given credit for. (Lots of pet owners know their dogs are smart, for example, but they tend to get smacked down by "science" for anthropomorphizing and etc.) I have sort of a side hobby of reading books on this topic. Lots of fascinating research going on, exciting and terrifying at the same time. I think that in the next century or two we won't be able to eat meat any more, or we'll be eating lab-grown meat, because we'll have sufficient evidence proving that the animals we eat are just as sentient and intelligent as we are. Just some examples:

Species with strong social structures seem to be the most intelligent, with strong problem-solving capabilities, strong relationships and emotions. We're seeing evidence in elephants that they understand death and have funerary rituals. More species than we previously assumed are being discovered creating tools and using them. We're starting to document evidence that dogs understand the concept of fairness, as do some of the great apes and elephants. Some bird species show an understanding of deliberate deception. Fairness and deception are the building blocks to morality.

Now I'm not winding up to say it's wrong to have a pet dog or cat. Pet-keeping is fine as long as the animal is well cared for. Species like dogs have now become very dependent on living with us for their well-being, so that's never going to change. I guess they're sort of a symbiotic species with us.

[Harold Mansfield]

We have a cat and I'm pretty sure it's his house and he just allows us to live here as long as we keep feeding him, scooping the box and entertaining him when he sees fit.

[Bobjob]

That is interesting about the Rhino guy. I am surprised he is not subsidized or even owned by an animal group like PETA, WWF or Greenpeace.

"I think that in the next century or two we won't be able to eat meat any more, or we'll be eating lab-grown meat, because we'll have sufficient evidence proving that the animals we eat are just as sentient and intelligent as we are."

I agree, but I do love steak.

[Dwayne]

I'm against of using pets for a pleasure, they are also alive and have feelings

[turboguy]

"I think that in the next century or two we won't be able to eat meat any more, or we'll be eating lab-grown meat, because we'll have sufficient evidence proving that the animals we eat are just as sentient and intelligent as we are."

I agree, but I do love steak.

I don't think it will take a century or two for lab grown meat. One of the hot stocks right now is a company called "Beyond Meat" which produces hamburgers made from peas that supposedly look like hamburger, cook like hamburger and taste like hamburgers. I am sure if they can do hamburgers now steak will be done in the next decade or two. Outlawing eating meat may take longer. Dogs do seem pretty smart to me. Cows I am not so sure.