customer story...the nerve of some people

[huggytree]

had a basement flood on Christmas eve....sump pump was installed by local competitor and done poorly....basement flooded as a result...i showed up and adjusted the sump pump and installed a 2nd 'backup' sump pump....i showed him how my install was a quality install and the competitors was poorly done....he seemed impressed.

1 week later he calls me for a new water heater...i give him a price he says 'ill get back to you'....i call him the next day for a follow up assuming ill get the job..he says he has a better price and wants me to lower mine...i was slow, so i said id consider matching if it was reasonable...he says 'ill get back to you'....so i call his low bid plumber....$40 less....he'd dump the quality guy and go with a stranger after his basement flooded 1 week ago for $40....i call him and offer to match the -$40...he says he wants me to beat that price...i say no

3 months later...he calls me today and wants me to come over and look at the sump pump..he says its making noises...i ask which one? he says the one I DIDNT INSTALL..i say ill come for $155....he says no thanks and then asks me tons of questions trying to fix it himself...he thought id come over for free to fix someone elses work...

why are some people this way?

[vangogh]

Some people are never willing to pay for quality. They don't see the value in the extra quality despite how obvious it is. It's not like you were talking about a lot of money either. $40 in one case and $155 in the other. I'm sure the guy could afford it.

Some people feel the need to get a bargain. With the $40 thing he probably was just looking to pay less, but it could also have been about getting you to do something you didn't want to do. It becomes a control thing where he feels better about himself by getting you to do what he wants instead of what you want.

[Harold Mansfield]

I was thinking the same as VG, it's a control thing. Just about any paying customers wants to feel that they are in charge, it's natural, but there is a line between being in charge and trying to control the person doing the work.

He sounds like a full price customer to me. Meaning, I'd let the guy be 'in charge' if he were paying full price, or a little higher, but not for a discount.
For a discount we do it 100% my way or we don't do the job because there comes a point where you have not only cheapened the price, but cheapened yourself to get the work.

That's probably easier for me to say, being single and not having any responsibilities.

[vangogh]

There are people who feel the need to only buy something on sale. It makes them feel like the won, like they beat the store. a 5% discount is often enough for them. Most don't stop to realize that the 5% discount might only have been $1 in savings for which they drove across town instead of buying the same product for $1 more in the store down the block.

[Spider]

I think we are focussing too much on the customer.

Speaking in general terms, I think the focus needs to be, not on the customer but on the business. You cannot control the customer, you can only control your business. ("You can't control the wind but you can trim your sails!")

I think a business needs to decide what sort of business they are going to be, and what sort of customer they are going to deal with. One cannot be a full price business and expect to satisfy discount customers.

If one is a full price, quality only type business, one has to be prepared to refuse all the business that does not fall within the parameters you have set. If the business has miscalculated the potential market (ie. not enough full price, quality buyers) then the business must change the way it does business to match the market that exists.

[huggytree]

i feel he's a user and not very smart...he learned a lesson w/ a low price plumber who cost him $20k in basement repairs...then goes to a 2nd cut rate guy to save $40...he knows im a quality guy...he's just searching for the deal and hopes he will get quality...instead of paying $40 more and knowing he'll get it....

im still baffled why he would think id come over and look at a problem with the other guys pump for free....why would i fix something i didnt do.

[Patrysha]

At some point, you just have to accept that people are baffling. Some of them are down right stupid. Others of us are just stupid at times. I like to think I'm in the latter group, but who knows.

In any case, you kind of just have to shake your head and move on.

I probably confuse the heck out of the places I shop at. I like quality, so I can only afford a fraction of what I like...so I'm very slow about buying and do often buy on sale. I'd pay full price if I could, but I can't...yet!

[Spider]

...I'd pay full price if I could, but I can't...yet!That's the spirit! Most people would have stopped at "... can't" and would have continued to lock themselves into perpetual poverty by their words. The addition of "yet" gives your subconscious mind the push it needs to constantly seek improvement.

Good word choice. Keep it up!

[Patrysha]

That's the spirit! Most people would have stopped at "... can't" and would have continued to lock themselves into perpetual poverty by their words. The addition of "yet" gives your subconscious mind the push it needs to constantly seek improvement.

Good word choice. Keep it up!

Thanks I am working on it :-) Can't really isn't true in any case...I could afford different things if I had different priorities...but I like food more than clothes and shoes :-)

[Spider]

Thanks I am working on it :-) Can't really isn't true in any case...I could afford different things if I had different priorities...but I like food more than clothes and shoes :-)Even better. So replace "can't" with "choose not to" and you will gain another subconscious push in the right direction.

I love transformational vocabulary!

[Steve B]

Did he really want you to look at the other guy's pump for free - or did he think $155 was too high? Just trying to get clarification here. I would have thought a price of $75 or $85 to come over and give him an assessment of the situation might have seemed fair to a lot of people. Of course, if you actually fixed it you could have charged him more.

On another note - in my opinion you haven't decided what method of pricing you want to use. You negotiated with him once - so you've now set the tone forever and ever. He will always feel your first price isn't really your best price. I decided years ago that I wouldn't negotiate. I give an outstanding price right up front - and I NEVER EVER negotiate it.

[huggytree]

he wanted me to look at it for free....he said 'no rush, just wait until your in the area'.... it sounded like a bad pump or a bad check valve...it needed a repair....yea id charge $75 to looksee...i doubt he'd be happy to pay $75 for an opinion...



i typically dont go down in price ever, but in this case i think i was sitting around all week...it was in the middle of a bad streak...i learned the lesson of 'price'....your never low enough for the price shopper.

[Steve B]

I got something similar the other day from a lady that just wanted me to stop by when I was "in the area". After a brief discussion I concluded that she thought it would be free if I was "in the area".

What I do when I'm not sure if they understand that I will be charging them to come out is I say "I'd like to save you the service call charge - can you go out in the garage and take a look at ???? and tell me what it's doing - I might be able to help you over the phone". Then, if they still want me to come out and take a look - they know it will cost them. I'm sure this is a lot easier for me to do since there are only about 8 things that can be happening with my fence.

[Spider]

You know, guys. Why not just consider this public relations or one-on-one advertising. When you are in the area - ie. no special trip - and if you have the time to stop for five minutes, stop, introduce yourself, ask to see the problem and say, "That could be this or this, or this. We won't know until I make a proper inspection. Would you like me to schedule a visit? Our service fee is $....... Would Thursday work for you or would Friday be better?"

You can't do it now because you are on the way to another job, and you just stopped by, as the customer suggested. If they balk at the service fee, you can ignore their remarks and only respond to a specific question, if they ask one. You can leave your card and brochure.

Now you have your card and brochure in their possession, they have met you and feel better about calling you. If they don't call you, it has cost you pennies, which is probably a cheaper rate per prospect engaged than direct mail.

Plus you get the chance to demonstrate your professionalism and technical knowledge, and your van parked in their driveway for a few minutes says much more about your business than a direct mail piece that is discarded and a yellowpage ad that is not read.

IOW. Why not refrain from grumbling about the people who you think will never hire you and look for possibilities of getting your name in front of people who may. And their neighbors, who can read the van graphics.

[Steve B]

My example was already one of my customers.

They just wanted something for nothing - I don't work for free if I can help it. Since they already know me there is no need to introduce myself.

[statts]

Huggy that is a rough one. Congrats on running your business the right way.

[Spider]

My example was already one of my customers.
They just wanted something for nothing - I don't work for free if I can help it. Since they already know me there is no need to introduce myself.Well, that throws a completely different light on it, Steve. I think that's all the more reason to just "stop by" when you are "in the area." In fact, for an existing customer, I would go out of my way to just stop by.

If the work that was necessary would only take a couple of minutes, why not do it without charge? How much credit could you gain with this customer for doing that? How many people might she tell how wonderful you were to do that? And how much would it cost you?

Sure, if it's a sizeable job, you can't do it now - you are just stopping by - on the way to another job. You can schedule a visit, and give an estimate on the spot. But for a small job, a freebie has tremendous promotional value.

This is how you turn satisfied customers into raving fans. Penny-pinch, expecting to get paid for every two-minute job, and you will turn even well-satisfied customers into skeptics, ready to abandon you for the next company that does what you do.

I don't know how many of my wife's clients tell her how much they appreciate her and exclaim that they don't know what they would do if she were to close up shop. Yet there are numerous grooming and boarding businesses around here. I have no idea how well they are doing in this recession, but my wife is as busy as ever. But then she is constantly giving little gifts, doing stuff and not charging for it, offering extra little services, going out of her way to accommodate her customers, working past midnight for a special occassion. By now many are friends who invite us to parties and whom we invite to parties at our house.

The loyalty she has generated goes far beyond what could be expected from just being good at her job. She has developed a host of thoroughly devoted patrons, some of whom drive 50 miles to bring their dogs to her after they move out of the area.

[Blessed]

I think it depends a lot on the business person's mindset.

If, like Frederick's wife, you don't mind doing some freebies, offering extra, etc... it works really well for you - and you will see your business grow and your customer's become friends instead of just clients. However, if you do mind - it doesn't work, because if you do give discounts, freebies, etc... you do it with a bit of resentment and people sense that, even if you think you are covering it up. So it's best for you not to do that at all - until you can change your mindset.

I wonder how much of this is a gender thing? I do a lot of extra's, etc... for my clients and they are very loyal and I get referrals without much effort on my part. I think in the long run I'm making the same amount of money I would be making if I were hard-nosed about my prices. And... when I do start to push my business harder and make it grow I think it will grow faster - because clients who have become friends are much more loyal than simple clients, and they really do remember my name and have my contact information and pass it on when they are talking to someone in their network that could use my services - much more so than clients I've simply done a good job for and not developed a relationship with.

Ok... hope that all made sense, I was interrupted by these little ones two or three times in the middle of it :)

[vangogh]

I'm not sure it's a gender thing. I do freebie work for existing clients all the time. I don't though, for new clients. I do want to reward loyal clients for being loyal to me. I can't always give them free work, but when I can I do.

[Spider]

The gender difference comes in, I think, in the way the gifts and extra services are given. My wife does it - and I do, too, when I am involved with her business - because it is fun, makes people feel good, and ...well, that's what you do with friends.

We men do it, noticing the promotional value, the advertising potential, the long-term monetary gain, and are generally more calculating about it.

[cocoy]

I wonder if people treat existing customers differently based on the future needs of their service.

Dog fence - What percentage are going to be repeat customers? Once you put the fence down what else is there to do?

Dog groomer - What percentage are going to be repeat customers? I would think " a lot" for a groomer since it's a maintenance thing.

[Spider]

I don't think that makes any difference. Ever heard of Joe Girard? New cars are not exactly a "maintenance thing."

From my point of view, it's a business growth thing, regardless of the type of business.

[cocoy]

I don't think that makes any difference. Ever heard of Joe Girard? New cars are not exactly a "maintenance thing."

From my point of view, it's a business growth thing, regardless of the type of business.

I know your point of view. And it's similar to mine. I'm just saying that some people may not look at it that way.

[Blessed]

The gender difference comes in, I think, in the way the gifts and extra services are given. My wife does it - and I do, too, when I am involved with her business - because it is fun, makes people feel good, and ...well, that's what you do with friends.

We men do it, noticing the promotional value, the advertising potential, the long-term monetary gain, and are generally more calculating about it.

I think you make a good point here Frederick - most of the "free" stuff I do, I do because it's fun, it makes people feel good, it's part of my personality - I like to give, it makes me feel good. I know intrinsically that it is a good business thing to do in the terms of promotion, advertising and long-term monetary gain, but I'm definitely not calculating about it.

I do however have two customers that I do not and will not do anything free for - both women, both take advantage of anyone they can. I've given discounts for personal work (versus the typical work I do for them) but I won't give them anything free and they don't get any return business from me - like any of my other customers who have a service or product I can use do. Both of those customers are price-shoppers, I loose them for a job or two every year and they always come back because the job or two I lost weren't done right and they need the rest of the jobs for the year done right. Honestly, aside from needing the dollars in the bank account, I wouldn't care if I never did another job for either one of them, at the same time we have a good working relationship and I do my best to service them with the same promptness, accuracy and friendliness I do the rest of my clients.

[Steve B]

The only repeat business in the dog fence world is when they cut the wire doing some landscaping or if they get a new dog and need to buy a collar. The "repeat" part comes in when they brag to their friends how pleased they were with their selection of installation company. Then, I repeat the same service to their friends and neighbors.

I give tons of free advice over the phone and via e-mail. But, if I drive 45 minutes to their house to answer the same question they could have asked over the phone, I charge my normal service call amount. There's really no such thing for me as "next time you're in the area" because that would require me to remember who I need to "stop by and see" when I'm in about 100 different "areas". That's just not gonna happen with my memory.

I admit it would be great if things could work this way. I've got lots of work I need to have done around my house. I can't really afford to pay people to do it - but, I see service trucks drive by my house all the time. I should just put up a sign asking one of them to stop by while they're on their way to some other paying customer's house. Even if they didn't do it for free, they should at least give me a big discount since they were in the area anyway. Right? :)

[Blessed]

... I've got lots of work I need to have done around my house. I can't really afford to pay people to do it - but, I see service trucks drive by my house all the time. I should just put up a sign asking one of them to stop by while they're on their way to some other paying customer's house. Even if they didn't do it for free, they should at least give me a big discount since they were in the area anyway. Right? :)

Now there's a great idea... I think I'll put a sign in my yard too :D unfortunately I live on a dead-end and we don't get many service trucks driving by, but you never know...

[Spider]

...I've got lots of work I need to have done around my house. I can't really afford to pay people to do it - but, I see service trucks drive by my house all the time. I should just put up a sign asking one of them to stop by while they're on their way to some other paying customer's house. Even if they didn't do it for free, they should at least give me a big discount since they were in the area anyway. Right? :)1. I'm sorry that you can't afford to keep your house properly maintained, Steve. I think we are discussing a way to grow your business so you would be able to afford it.

2. I thought this conversation was about dealing with existing customers. It doesn't sound as if you consider yourself an existing customer to any of these service people your sign is designed to attract.

3. Not sure that I ever mentioned giving a discount. I tend to feel that a material gift or free extra service counts for more than a discounted price.

4. You know what I would do, if I was a household service business and saw such a sign as you propose? I would stop and enquire how I could help. I would look at the problem(s) you were having and give you a quote for doing what I could. Any items that would take only a minute, I would do without charge. I would leave knowing that I could now stop any time I chose to check on you and see how your house maintenance was coming along. And I'd bet in no time I'd start getting paid work out of it - from you and from your neighbors.

I know you were joking, Steve, but I think this conversation demonstrates the many ways we, as businessmen, tend to overlook the huge potential in developing fans rather than merely satisfied customers. Perhaps it takes doing things that come more naturely to women, but they are things we men would do well to learn.

May I suggest two books: Raving Fans: A Revolutionary Approach To Customer Service (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123163/?tag=i45mc-20) by Ken Blanchard and Sheldon Bowles, and Gung Ho! Turn On the People in Any Organization (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068815428X/?tag=i45mc-20) by Ken Blanchard.

I found both these books essential reading to develop excellence in the workplace.

[huggytree]

In fact, for an existing customer, I would go out of my way to just stop by.

if they want you to figure out things for free they are not an 'existing customer' they are a 'old customer' or 'was a customer'....a 'customer' typically means you pay for something

i also give free advice over the phone all the time..on small jobs that would take me 1 minute to complete i think its best to tell the customer how to tighten a nut. I dont think they would be happy to pay $155 for 60 seconds of work....i assume they will remember my free advice and call me when they have a real problem.

i dont go to anyones house for free if the job is under $1k...no free estimates for a $100 job.

i had a bid once on a repipe...he had all the new piping materials on the garage floor..he said he wasnt sure if he wanted a plumber or not, but could i show him how i would run it?...i walked out. i learned a few things from that experience. the most important thing is to qualify the customer before driving out to his house....when someone wants you to look for free and give advice and is open about it they are disqualifying themselves for you.

[Spider]

Clearly, another book recommendation is called for -- Customers For Life: How To Turn That One-Time Buyer Into a Lifetime Customer (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385504454/?tag=i45mc-20) - Carl Sewell, Paul B. Brown

Carl Sewell is regarded as a leader of the "Good to Great" movement in American business.

Carl gave us three critical tips:

1. Listen very carefully to customers. Although intuitively obvious, most companies neglect to ask the buyer what he or she wants. As experts in their field, they assume that they know their customers' wants without asking. Such myopic neglect leads to isolation from customer expectations. Over time, it results in a disconnect between seller and buyer.

2. Determine what 'best' is. Enterprises are inward-looking. Mr. Sewell yearned to be the best, but having been in the same insulated dealership for 14 years, he didn't know what best meant. So he visited the leading out-of-state car dealership (i.e., out of his competition zone) for two days. He observed, he asked questions and he learned first-hand how the best behaved. But he didn't stop with his own industry – he also visited leaders such as Walt Disney Co., Electronic Data Systems Corp. and Neiman Marcus Group Inc. The lessons he learned were remarkable and indelible.

3. Engage seasoned consultants for objectivity and expertise. Yes, consultants cost money, and they're a luxury many small and medium-size businesses do without. But avoiding outside consultants only adds to an enterprise's isolation. If becoming the best is your goal, Mr. Sewell would tell you that a knowledgeable, experienced consultant is a necessity.

Notes from Dallas Morning News - Thursday, April 19, 2007

[Blessed]

I like the point about turning customers into devoted fans - it's all those "little" things I do that my customer's remember me for and when I get a referral call that the person calling might mention - not the $1500 start to finish direct mail piece that was a raving success. I'm not saying they don't remember the big jobs - I am saying that the extra's I do (graduation announcement's for their child, a quirky gift tag they can print off themselves, etc...) are what make me a permanent memory and not just a passing fad.

[cocoy]

I guess it's a bit different with me. I provide an actual item to my customers. I do floor plans for real estate agents and construction drawings for engineers and architects. So there's really nothing they can get from me, like advices, free of charge before being a paid customer. I have a set price that they seem to be happy with and nobody has yet asked me to lower. It's a fair fee that's comparable to my competitors.

I do take every opportunity to market myself when I speak to potential or existing customers. I also do small "favors" for customers. I've even had new customers ask for several business cards when I meet them at a property, so they can give it out to their peers, before they even see the product I will create for them. I think it's just how I speak and present myself to them.

[Patrysha]

I've read Sewell's book :-)

I've read a lot of books...but I don't do things because a book told me to - but because it feels right.

I'm with Jen in that I do a lot of added value things for my customers, but most of mine are intangible.

They take little effort and I hope they do set me apart from the average consultant. I like to think they do.

Like when I get emails from certain clients (and prospects) and they have an error or have done something that they could easily improve with their next effort...I send an email with a tip or two often with a few links they can double check my information with.

Or when I see a pr opp for someone I know (whether they are a client or not), if something makes me think of them...I get in touch and alert them to it. They can do what they want from there...take action on it themselves or hire me to move on it for them. But I do it without expectation...if they hire me, great...if not...I hope they at least use the knowledge...

There's not a whole lot a client can take from me that I don't freely give as far as advice and so forth go...they can take it or leave it as long as they pay me for the work I do at the price we've agreed to.