Do you tell your clients when they have bad ideas? or just do the work?

[Harold Mansfield]

It's a really tough situation to be in when clients want you to do something that is either dated (tried and failed many times over the years), inefficient, or simply just a bad idea.

After you consul them and give your honest, professional opinion and they are still sure that they want it this way, do you still do the job? Even when you know it's a failure waiting to happen?

Sometimes people don't want your opinion, they just want you to do the work.
Do you guys still do it, even if you know it's wrong?

[ParaTed2k]

I guess that would depend on what they want to do. If it's something that's been tried and failed, I'd ask them what they plan to do differently that makes them think they can make it work.

[Spider]

If, by 'wrong,' you mean immoral, unethical, etc. I'd not do it. If you mean "in my opinion, that is not likely to achieve what you expect," I'd do it, having stated my opinion and offered a few suggestions to make it more effective. I'd also be very specific about what I disliked, why, and what I suggest - and put it all in writing.

I think there is a danger in taking any other path. I think a business person - especially a successful business person - knows their business better than I do. Even as a coach I take that stand - "You know your business better than In do." I think our job (as webdesigner or business coach) is to draw out from the client what they want to achieve and help them do it. But they must be allowed to be the leader of their project.

[cbscreative]

That's always a tough one, Harold. I do like you and provide reasons why I think it's a bad idea. Most of the time, they take my advice. If they want to proceed anyway, whether I do it or not depends on many factors. If it's a new client, most likely not if it's something I'm sure about. If it's a minor issue or difference of opinion, then as long as their checks always clear, I probably would go forward.

Since your operative phrase is you know it's failure waiting to happen, I would be evaluating how that failure might reflect on my business. By the sound of your description, I most likely would not want to proceed.

However, another variable comes to mind. If this is a long term client you have much invested into, you may want to consider how you can minimize the damage and come out stronger in the end without losing the client.

[Harold Mansfield]

Most times how they run their business is none of mine, I just need to know some things to build the site... unless their business IS the website. Then I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't tell them what I knew.. and you don't want to crush the entrepreneurial spirit..after all who am I to say who's going to be successful or what people can make work..but some things are just delusions based on lack of any real knowledge about how the internet works and those are the ones that are tough.

The people that come to me, not because they need a business website, but because they want a website as a way to make "easy" money, with no real direction or comprehension of how to run a web based business...those are the ones. Most times I should just do what they want and take the money because some of them will just find someone else to do it..but I usually end up being honest with them and losing the sale.
Those don't come that often, but when they do I feel like another service provider would just do the job.

I mean if you are a plumber and someone wants a toilet in their living room in front of the TV, do you talk them out of it for obvious reasons or just do the job?

[Business Attorney]

In my practice, I try to dissuade a client from taking what I consider to be a clearly foolish path.

Mostly, it is because I view my value to my clients as being a business advisor who has seen a lot of things that are new and unfamiliar to them. To some extent, it is also in my best interest, because if they start down a path that is going to cost them a lot of money with no reward at the end, they are often likely to owe me fees that can't be paid.

For example, many people come to me to create a private placement document and subscription agreement to raise money for their business. If I talk to them about their plans for the business and their ability to raise the funds, and I believe it is highly unlikely that they will be able to successfully raise the money, I will not take on the matter even if they are willing to come up with a substantial retainer fee upfront.

But, like Frederick, I understand that my client knows their business better than I do. If the idea is simply one that I would not personally invest in but the client is generally knowledgeable and appears to understand the risks, it is not my role to decide what deals go forward.

[Blessed]

I do my best to point out the flaws I see with my clients idea without being harsh - if they insist, I produce - often seeing the first proof where I once again point out what I think the potential problems are is enough to get them in the process of rethinking, but if not... the client is always right, the client is always right, the client is.... out of their mind and better pay me pronto!

[vangogh]

Not an easy question and one that depends on why you think something is wrong. Frederick mentioned the idea of the wrongness being something you disagree with ethically, which is very different from something you think wrong because you don't think it will work. I'm thinking your question is more the latter such as a client wanting you to create an all Flash intro/splash page.

I think part of my job as a web designer is to offer my experience to my clients so whenever they have suggestions for their site I offer my opinion on whether I think their idea will be effective or not. I might also offer some new ideas. I won't tell them how to run their business, but where the website is concerned I will tell them what I honestly think. In the end though I let the client make the choice. It is ultimately their website and they get to make the call. I also know that no matter how strongly I may feel about something there are times the client is right and I'm wrong. Client's do have good ideas about their sites after all.

The stronger I feel about something, the more I'll fight for it. If I really think a client is making a mistake with something they want on their site I will fight them on it. In the end I'm still going to let them make the decision, but I am going to defend my position in part to get them to think about their position more.

There are times when I'll refuse to do something, though mainly that would be do to an ethical objection or because I think doing what the client wants will hurt my business. While it is the client's site, the fact that I create the site does mean how it turns out has an effect on my business. More than likely though if this is the case I probably wouldn't take on the client in the first place.

[Harold Mansfield]

I have turned down work because the client didn't have a clear vision or complete idea of what they wanted, yet, wanted me to come up with a flat rate. Those are pretty much impossible to take if they are resistant to paying by the hour, day or week.
I've never just blew a job because I thought the idea was stupid, but I'm sure that I have turned clients off that were once exited about their "original" project and then I showed them 20 examples of competitors and it burst their bubble.

It sucks doing that...it's like taking candy from a happy baby, but it has to be done. I hate for people to have an unrealistic view of things and usually a dose of reality let's them think about how dedicated they actually are to the project.

[huggytree]

i have refused to work with some products......i just hand them my bid with the product i like to use included in it....i never win those.

my customers trust my judgement and typically i inform them of the choices they have in products...i say to keep away from this or that...

when i show up on jobs not knowing what the product is and its junk i typically do install it...i write a disclaimer on the final bill if i see future issues with the product.

people buy no name faucets all the time....when they break where do you get parts?....you throw it out is what you do....sometimes these no names leak from day 1....i get paid and walk away....

my typical customer usually uses high quality parts and wants the best....its rare i have to install junk anymore....those customers are typically weeded out ahead of time through me qualifying them......the longer in business i am the easier this issue has become...

i will install a homeowners fixtures, but i refuse to install a homeowners plumbing fittings/parts....if they leak or break who's fault is it?..ive walked away from a few jobs over this issue...i dont know of any plumbers who will use a customers parts/fittings...it would be warranty suicide

[greenoak]

i sure wouldnt..and its probably a losing arguement anyway....and maybe after it goes wrong you will look even smarter..
but is it really black and white? ..with m y customers i have to figure they have their taste and i have mine.... if they like oak furniture with lace doilies thats not a problem to me....i totally like classical proportions and real quality as opposed to particle board or about anything plastic..but if they dont even see correct crown molding i can still help them...sometimes it hurts tho.....
i think your job and mine is to try and see what the customer wants and try and get there for them ..in the creative art world like design...there really isnt a totally right way to express something...your customers idea might be lots better actually...and you might be missing something they are trying to express......i had a decorator once....and i asked for english country and she did some work and showed me totally ikky dolly parton.as in totally trashy victorian.....she didnt even know the difference...and didnt get the job...it was like if you asked for leaonard cohen and got pat boone...
but in huggys world i would be more like him and draw the line on his idea of quality....since they will be calling him when it breaks....
i sure appreciate the kind of info eborg mentioned...where the expert has really absorbed the buyers idea and then shows why it might not work with bad examples ....if they got your idea!! which i think is pretty rare...but i wouldnt want someone to try and help me who had a big generic idea to impose on me....its gotta be all about me and what i think my customers like ...in any creative situation...

[gabearnold]

I think a business person - especially a successful business person - knows their business better than I do.

Very true Spider. Too many consultants or service providers think they know everything about their business AND their client's business.

For myself, I do my best to be honest about what I think of the idea, so that the client can think carefully through what they are asking me to do. Often I learn more than I expected I would when I decide to be open minded and consider their "wrong" idea.

[vangogh]

Too many consultants or service providers think they know everything about their business AND their client's business.

Yep. I see myself as an expert in what I do, but not what my client's do. Part of my job is to learn as much as I can about my client's businesses in order to do my job better. Where my business is concerned though I do think it's my responsibility to offer my experience and expertise to the client.

[KristineS]

I think if you're hired to provide the benefit of your knowledge and experience than you should do so. Once you've done that it is up to the client to decide what they want to do. We've done things here that I was very against and some of them have worked and some of them haven't. I don't think anyone is ever 100% right. I do believe that, as professionals, we owe those who hire us our true opinion and the judgments formed by our experience and knowledge. What they do with that information is up to them.

[Harold Mansfield]

Very true Spider. Too many consultants or service providers think they know everything about their business AND their client's business.


I don't know how true that is for other service providers, but if I am hired to create materials that represent or promote your company, I need to learn a little bit about it to do that successfully. None of my suggestions have anything to do with how you run it or your industry, they only relate to the work that you hired me to do.

I would think that a client would listen strongly to the opinion of the person hired for their expertise. Most people would never think to second guess the opinion of a Carpenter, Electrician, Doctor, Mechanic or any other skilled or educated specialist. But these days most anyone can gain a little bit of knowledge about a lot of different things online and that can be a smart thing to do, or a dangerous thing to trust.

[vangogh]

None of my suggestions have anything to do with how you run it or your industry, they only relate to the work that you hired me to do.

That's how I see it too. I don't think Gabe was necessarily implying anything different. There's a line though where we can cross into how the client runs their business by what we do on their site. I'll always offer my opinion, but in the end it's the client's site and they get to decide. I see myself as a source of information for the client, a source that will actively offer information and argue for it, but also a source and not the decision maker.


Most people would never think to second guess the opinion of a Carpenter, Electrician, Doctor, Mechanic or any other skilled or educated specialist.

Is that really true? People get second opinions fro doctors all the time. I won't take at face value anything a carpenter, electrician, or mechanic tells me. I'll defer to their opinion most of the time, since they know more about their expertise than i do. On the other hand I know enough to recognize a load bearing column and I'm not going to let a carpenter remove it just because they say it's the right thing to do.

I think it's good that we have access to more information because I think it means we can make more informed choices. At the same time I completely agree with you about how many clients seem to question us more than they would other specialists. I've had clients who ignored every piece of advice ever gave them in regards to their site and then wonder why they hired e in the first place.

[cbscreative]

I'd have to second that I would (and did) second guess the opinion of pros, even doctors. I know enough about modern health care to be skeptical of it. By the admission of the profession itself, one of the leading causes of medical complications and even death is human error. That's a whole new conversation, but when your well being is at stake, you want to get educated. Your first clue should be that little form you have to sign that relieves the medical professionals of any responsibility. You accept all the risk. Questioning them is a very prudent thing to do, and abundant information is now easily available.

[MommyL]

I'll always offer my opinion, but in the end it's the client's site and they get to decide. I see myself as a source of information for the client, a source that will actively offer information and argue for it, but also a source and not the decision maker.

I fully agree with this! And, I'll add that coming from the perspective a new small business owner, I myself welcome the opionion of others who have been doing it longer than me. It really allows me to weigh what the best avenues are. In the end it is my decision, but at least I'll be able to make an educated one.

[vangogh]

I myself welcome the opionion of others who have been doing it longer than me.

And presumably you hired that person because of their expertise, which is why I think it's part of my job to offer my opinion. The reality is there's nothing I could do to ever make you take that opinion. The most I could ever do is refuse to do something any other way, but in that case you could just hire someone else. In the end it is your business so you get to decide.

However I will say that when I feel very strongly about something I'll do a lot to convince you why I think my idea is the better option. To me that comes down to caring about my clients and wanting to see them do well.