Patriot Guard Riders

[ParaTed2k]

I get to go to my first military funeral as a member of the Patriot Guard Riders on Monday!

PGR is a group of (mostly) motorcyclists who show up at funerals targeted by the Rev. Phleps and his hatemongers (You know, the "God Hates F@gs" people). We create a barrier between the Phelpsians and the funeral so there is no disruption.

To me, this is a great balance between the freedom of speech of the Phelpsians and the mourners at targeted funerals. The government doesn't need to step in, but the mourners don't have to be verbally or visually assaulted during such a sad time in their lives.

[greenoak]

be carefu...good community service and it sounds like its neededd...

[Harold Mansfield]

I am still in disbelief that these people actually protest funerals. No matter what they believe, that has to be the lowest, most despicable form of protest that I have ever seen. It's amazing how easily clergymen, and so called Christians can get so self righteous as to disrespect others. Absolutely amazing.

[ParaTed2k]

Ann, I really hope we're not needed, but glad to be there just in case.

eborg: I know, pretty disturbing isn't it. But one of the freedoms we fight for is the right to be a total tool. ;~D

[Blessed]

I lived in Topeka where that despicable group is based for a time - they protest anything and everything - not just funerals, those just get the most media attention - and, that is what the group is the most after - attention. I appreciate what your group is doing ParaTed2K, but I wonder if it would be needed today if the media had just ignored them all those years ago when they protested their first funeral. It is so juvenile... sigh

[ParaTed2k]

eborg: That sort of hate knows no bounds. I guess in an era where bullies are showing up to the viewings of their victims who committed suidice and laughing loudly over their open caskets, all bets are off.

Blessed: Probably true, but the damage is done, so we will respond to their hatred with love and support for the families they target.

[ParaTed2k]

Blessed, I can't help but laugh about seeing Blessed and 666 on your last post! lol

[Blessed]

Yes the damage is done - I worked at a local newspaper there - we proved that ignoring them worked, they protested us for awhile - we just went about our business, coming and going like they weren't trying to block our doors - having conversations with each other as we walked through their lines to our door. Accidentally stepping on a foot, hitting someone with the door and starting and saying "oh, sorry - I didn't see you there" after about a week they gave up and although they still hated us, we never had them outside our door again. Unfortunately the rest of the world wasn't able to do the same thing.

Oh and when you've lived in an area where all the zip codes are 666XX - you don't think much about the number "666" anymore. :) I am blessed - I have everything I need, a loving family, close friends and a good God. Now... if I could just figure out a way to get my floors to clean themselves, the laundry to fold itself, dinner to cook itself and the dogs to clean out their own kennels, I'll think myself privileged! :D ah well... kids are finally napping so I'd better get busy!

[Harold Mansfield]

People taking convenient passages from the Bible (or any other book of scripture) to justify their fanaticism is not new. It's been happening since the beginning of religion. But religion and beliefs aside, protesting a funeral is a complete lack of respect for your fellow man. Even in times of war Red Cross, Medical and Religious installations are off limits.

Maybe the media is responsible for fueling many of these fanatics, because they are attention seekers more than anything. But without the media we wouldn't know what was gong on.
When you see this type of behavior abroad it's terrible, but you don't have much control because it's another country, but for Americans to show such disrespect for each other in this day and age is despicable.

Just as this group has a right to believe what ever parts of the Bible are convenient, others also have the right to not believe and not be harassed and attacked by the beliefs of others...and that's really where the whole thing upsets me...where do you get off taunting me with your religion and telling me I'm wrong for a not agreeing ? To me that seems unlawful. It seems that the freedom of religion is absolute for everyone.

The only saving grace in this whole situation is that most sane Americans, no matter what their personal beliefs are on the issue..agree that this "Church" is a bunch of self righteous lunatics.

I saw an interview on CNN with one of the leaders who said plainly that they know people despise them, but they won't stop because they are right. People who think that others are wrong and have no rights to their own beliefs are dangerous people. They are capable of doing anything.

I don't really care that this group is filled with hatred, or who they hate. That's America..people have to blame someone..but don't get in my face about it..that's where your freedoms should end.

[KristineS]

ParaTed, I think it is a great thing you're doing, and I like your description of responding to their hatred with love and support to the families.

There are a lot of sad things done in the name of religion, but intruding on a family's grief as to be one of the saddest. What an awful burden to add to a day that was already burdensome enough. I think groups like yours are doing a good thing. If you can't make the unfeeling idiots go away, at least you can impose a barrier between them and a grieving family.

Blessed, I also have to agree with you that ignoring some of these groups might give them less power. The problem is that ignoring them also allows them to plot and plan and preach their brand of hatred without anyone knowing what they're doing. So I guess we have to find a balance.

[Blessed]

You are right Kristine - the key is in finding a balance - between ignoring them and staying informed.

Most of these groups are filled with idiotic, cowardly bullies who parade around shouting cliche's and catch-phrases, giving their rehearsed "message" to whoever will listen - they want attention, fame and notoriety - since they are unable and/or unwilling to gain those things by hard work and honest living they resort to being sensational. It's human nature to be fascinated by the sensational - so we're fascinated, the media reports on the activities because their audience demands to know these sorts of things and the circle of supply & demand just keeps spinning. I'm sure there's a marketing lesson in this mess somewhere!

[ParaTed2k]

where do you get off taunting me with your religion and telling me I'm wrong for a not agreeing ? To me that seems unlawful. It seems that the freedom of religion is absolute for everyone.

I agree, eborg. I have my spiritual beliefs and I'm willing to talk about them with anyone who is interested. However, while I'm pretty strong in the "I'm Right" part of it, I prefer to leave the "You're Wrong" out of it. After all, I'm the "You're" to everyone else. ;~D

[ParaTed2k]

ParaTed, I think it is a great thing you're doing, and I like your description of responding to their hatred with love and support to the families.

There are a lot of sad things done in the name of religion, but intruding on a family's grief as to be one of the saddest. What an awful burden to add to a day that was already burdensome enough. I think groups like yours are doing a good thing. If you can't make the unfeeling idiots go away, at least you can impose a barrier between them and a grieving family.

Thanks KristinS! I like that it's a good non governmental solution to a sad problem. The families targeted by the hatemongers deserve to celebrate the lives of their loved one who has died as much as anyone else. It's about love, not a counter protest.

What I love most about it all, is that it is organized by a bunch of wild living, hard charging Bikers. Probably among the last group of people most would figure cared at all.

[Spider]

But we must be careful not to fall into the same trap.
Most of these groups are filled with idiotic, cowardly bullies who parade around shouting cliche's and catch-phrases, giving their rehearsed "message" to whoever will listen - they want attention, fame and notoriety - since they are unable and/or unwilling to gain those things by hard work and honest living they resort to being sensational. While there may be an element of this, so there would be in any group of people. (And, I am not picking on the original poster here - I'm speaking to everyone.)

I don't believe that the protesters are just doing it for the attention, as if they were frustrated rock-star-wannabees. I don't believe they are idiotic or cowardly or hateful. I believe they truly believe in their mission. That they take it too far and disregard others' feeling is certainly true, but I do think they believe in their message. Therefore, the approach of forceful resistance will only strengthen them in their resolve. You can never change another person's opinion by trying to shout them down or treat them disrespectfully.

I think Ted's approach is good because it doesn't try to change opinion, it only serves to provide a temporary barrier. Changing the opinion of extremists of any type can only be done by discussion, mutual understanding and earned respect.

[Harold Mansfield]

I agree that I have no doubt that they believe what they are saying. It is amazing that they don't see the obvious hypocrisy of it though.

[ParaTed2k]

Spider, sorry but I can't accept the lines "God Hates Fags", "Thank God for 9/11", "Thank God for Maimed Soldiers" or "Thank God for IEDs" as anything but hateful. The Phelpsians aren't just saying they disagree with war, or a lifestyle, they are celebrating the death and dismemberment of people they hate. Showing up at funerals is their form of worship. What they believe in is worshipping the pain and suffering of anyone who doesn't goosestep to their ideology. They have no interest in understanding or dialogue. It's simple, to them, if you disagree with them there are only two wishes for you in their hearts... Be maimed or die.

[Spider]

I accept what you say, Ted, because I have had no dealings with them. However, it does ourselves no good, nor helps the situation to get into a slanging match with them. Which is why I like your method - or as I understand your method - a simple physical but non-violent barrier keeping them at a distance.

[KristineS]

Frederick, I'm sure they do believe in their message too, but when their message is about hate, then it doesn't matter if they believe in it. The people who blew up the World Trade Center, or those who bomb abortion clinics, or people who burn down ski lodges or laboratories because they believe those places harm the environment believe in their messages too. When your message and how you express it causes pain and suffering in others, whether it's physical injury or property damage or disrupting a private funeral, then it's wrong, regardless of what the message is and regardless of whether or not I subscribe to the same belief system or support the message.

I'm willing to discuss any belief system with anyone who can hold a rational, civil discussion. The problem is that a lot of people can't do that these days. The minute it becomes a slanging match it's all over. I genuinely hope that we as a people can disagree on issues but still maintain a standard of civil behavior, but that hope is waning every day. Sometimes, as you say, simply providing a non-violent barrier to protect those who need protection is the best you can do.

[Blessed]

I'm willing to discuss any belief system with anyone who can hold a rational, civil discussion. The problem is that a lot of people can't do that these days. The minute it becomes a slanging match it's all over. I genuinely hope that we as a people can disagree on issues but still maintain a standard of civil behavior, but that hope is waning every day. Sometimes, as you say, simply providing a non-violent barrier to protect those who need protection is the best you can do.

So true Kristine. I do agree that what the Freedom Rider's are doing is probably the best type of solution for this specific problem.

As for my earlier very vehement statement about "idiotic, cowardly bullies..." that unfortunately comes from personal experience with this specific group, back when they were new at the art of picketing with those awful signs. I'll agree that there are probably people in the group who earnestly believe in their mission - and who are sincere, but the leader of this group is nothing more than a bully. Further, every bully I've ever met (and that's a lot of them) are cowards at heart.

[Patrysha]

Way to go ParaTed. I just love to hear stories of people stepping up for what is right in this world...

And Blessed...the self cleaning house and the automated laundry folding sound like heaven to me...the dinner cooking and the dog care have been successfully outsourced to little people. Well dinner 2-3 nights a week...not all the time, cuz we need a wider repetoire than they can deliver at this point...

[billbenson]

While the followers may believe, many of these groups have leaders that don't believe it and have other motivations.

[Spider]

Now... if I could just figure out a way to get my floors to clean themselves, the laundry to fold itself...

YouTube - Japanese T-shirt folding in English (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNr1oLhZ0zs)

Or, if you are an engineer....
YouTube - How an Engineer folds a T-Shirt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKKrUXjzDY)

[Blessed]

that's funny Spider! :)

[ParaTed2k]

It was a very emotional thing. No protestors or anything, so we got to spend the entire time holding flags and honoring the vet.

[KristineS]

I'm glad there were no protesters.