A Better Craigslist

[jamestl2]

OK, this isn't necessarily something I've been planning for months or anything, it's just an idea that has been swirling around in my head for awhile.

Why do so many people use Craigslist? I get the fact that a ton of people use it and can find products, jobs, housing, etc. through the site, and I admit that I was fortunate enough to find my current job through it. However, nothing ever changes there, the site's pretty stagnant. Couldn't the premise behind the site be so much more?

I had a few ideas for a classified site that could greatly improve upon the experience Craigslist offers users:

More Accountable Profiles = Pretty much anyone can login and post a listing, and users seeking out the various products / services have no idea how reputable the listers are, other than whatever they may say within the post. They even have to post a "Scam Warning" page before every category to inform users of all the scamming activity going on there.
A Better Design = Seriously, the design of the site looks like it hasn't been updated since 1995. Navigation is bloated, the colors are dull, and the UI in general leaves much to be desired.
Improved Information Architecture = This is a big one, I believe. Categories in general aren't very descriptive, and are basically just one big long list of simple words, phrases, etc. that don't describe the sections very well. There's really no other options to sort through postings other than the way they give you (by day), and their very basic search function.




How much potential do you think something like this could have? Is the thought of competing in the classifieds market even a realistic goal to have when starting from scratch (and possibly just one person starting the business in the beginning), or is it too monumental of a task to undertake all on its own?

Or does a better system already exist, and if so, why don't more people use it?

What do you guys think?

[mailorder]

Crags-list got there start from the magazine and put out adds when they started on line. They had there costumer base and lots of people know there name before they went on line. I'm thinking that they are cheap or free to post adds on.

Do you have a plan to compete and make money?
How are you going to keep it from being one of the hundreds of forums that don't have activity?

[jamestl2]

I'm not even at that stage yet. I'm just trying to figure out if this is a good idea or not.

[huggytree]

people use Craigs list because its there and works....its sooo simple, i dont see how someone could improve it more with out it becoming more complicated too...

my knock on Craigslist is its where cheap people go...if you want to sell something you need to sell it for 1/2 or 1/4 of its value....is that the type of customer you make money on?

[Steve B]

I think you have a great idea and I agree with all your obsservations. Keeping it simple is the key. Craig's list is already simple, but the layout could use some improvement.

[jamestl2]

Thanks.

Yeah, my main issue is with the site itself. The initial premise is great in my opinion, not so much when it comes to it's execution though.


i dont see how someone could improve it more with out it becoming more complicated too...


Well, actually, I think if Craigslist was re-designed and had a better layout, it would most likely be even easier and simpler to use than it is now.

[seolman]

I think the redesign is the least of your worries. The real issue will be marketing. Craig's List was about the only game in town when it started and now it's well known so anyone seeking to "up-end" them in the market will have to spend a lot more money then they did to get started. Just my 2 cents.

[KristineS]

I think the problem you're facing here is that Craigslist, no matter how good or bad it may be, is the first, and now it dominates the market. Anyone who comes in after Craigslist is going to end up needing to spend a lot of marketing money to get people to try and continue to use their site. The new site may be better, but Craigslist owns top of mind awareness, at least in larger population centers. It will be an uphill climb for someone new, and whoever that someone knew is will have to have deep pockets, or a lot of time and patience to spend on Marketing and spreading the word about the new site.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it would be a big job.

[vangogh]

James the main question to ask yourself is:

Is Craig's List broken?

It's not. It's simple and it works. And that's why people continue to use it. A redesign of the site isn't necessary. Again it works well as it is.

That said there's no reason why another classified site can't succeed. What you probably want to do first is find out what people don't like about Craig's List. You mentioned the lack of accountability. That seems reasonable to me (though you should find out if people really care about this). I think any site you develop should be designed as well as possible, but I don't know that slapping a new design on CL fundamentally improves the site. I'm not sure categories are a problem either. I don't think many people have a hard time figuring out where things are.

Those are only my opinion though and you should do some research. A search on Twitter or similar would be an easy place to start.

You might also want to pursue a more niche version. Maybe there's one or two specific categories where CL doesn't get good listings and you could attract more listings.

[jamestl2]

I realize marketing would be the HUGE main task for a site like this, since the premise (a classifieds site) already exists, but I'm not a marketing expert, and thought I'd get the idea for the potential product down first.



Is Craig's List broken?


I understand Craigslist isn't necessarily broken, I just think it could just be vastly expanded upon and improved. Take search engines for example, yahoo came out in 1995, but a few years later Google came on to the scene and expanded upon and perfected (IMO) everything a Search Engine should offer. While there was nothing inherently "broken" amongst Yahoo, Google still upped the ante and improved the user experience as best they could.


I haven't really decided on things like a marketing strategy, new design for the idea, or if even to pursue a niche version, I just thought I'd throw the idea out there and see how many people could be interested in a better version.

[vangogh]

I just think it could just be vastly expanded upon and improved

Right. The question though is not so much if you think it, but if enough other people think that too. That's why my suggestion is to first find out if people who actually use classified sites think CL is broken and also how they think it's broken.

If you're asking me I think CL is fine. To get me to use another site would require the new site to have postings that are what I'm looking for. I'd likely still visit CL first, but if I didn't find what I was looking for I'd certainly check another classified site. If I notice that I'm finding more of what I want at the new site, I'd start checking it before CL.

[Spider]

The Google/Yahoo comparison proves the point already made. Yahoo! was #1. You had to pay to get listed and it wasn't cheap! (unless they decided to list you free of their own volition.) Google came along. Regardless of whether you think they had a better application, they accepted all submitted websites for free, then in addition went hunting for websites to include even if not submitted. They became the biggest. That alone took a whole lot of computing power and software development and that took a whole bunch of money (in the millions, likely!) Then they had to get users, which took a lot of marketing and a whole lot more money.

If you have this kind of money, or friends who have, I think there are better opportunities than another Craig's List - but I'm sure people said that about Google and Yahoo! back then.

[vangogh]

Take search engines for example, yahoo came out in 1995, but a few years later Google came on to the scene

I'm not sure if this is the right comparison. Yahoo wasn't the de facto search engine at the time. If anything Alta Vista was the go to engine. Neither had the marketshare CL currently has. Also at the time search was broken. It was awful and very easy to spam. I don't think Google has perfected search, but they certainly improved it a lot.

Fast forward to today and CL isn't broken. I'm not suggesting it can't be improved, but it works and it works pretty well. I think it would make sense to listen for complaints about CL and from those complaints figure out how you can improve the basic idea. I think Twitter is a good place to search. Come up with a few CL related searches as save them through Twitter. Then check on them daily to see what people are saying.

The hardest part is going to be building up the community. You have to have people posting ads and people checking those ads to get more people to do the same. One advantage to starting niche, whether in one city or with a limited set of categories is you won't need as many people for the place to feel busy.

[Steve B]

I remember using the early search engines and thought they were unbelievable. There was never anything remotely like it and it gave you access to information you would have had to search hours and hours for in a library. The average person (me) certainly didn't think they were "broke". The same can be said about lots and lots of things that have been improved over the years. I remember using Lotus 123 (version 1.1) and thinking that was't "broke" either. etc. etc. etc.

I think you guys are being cynical. One immediate glance at CL makes it clear they've done zero in the way of sprucing it up over the years. I think it's prime for a competitor. It's basic and serves it's purpose, much like the first popular cell phones (bag phones), but it could stand a lot of improvement. With that said, I think it would take someone with some really deep pockets for advertising to break into that area. I remember when Google came out - we got a magnet sent to the house and it was hanging on the fridge many months before I even had a clue who they were or what they did.

[vangogh]

One immediate glance at CL makes it clear they've done zero in the way of sprucing it up over the years.

Would sprucing it up make it better though? Are people not using the site now because they don't like how it looks? Maybe. I doubt the current design keeps a significant amount of people away though.


I think it would take someone with some really deep pockets for advertising to break into that area

Yep. That's why a new design or reorganizing the categories probably isn't going to lead to a new better CL. I don't think we're being cynical here. Just honest. I agree that CL could be improved, but people aren't going to jump to a new classified site that's an improvement on on CL unless enough others do. That's why I'm suggesting James does some research and finds specific complaints about CL. Those complaints will lead him to fixing a couple of things for a specific group of people who might then use his new classified site, because it would meet their specific needs.

Lots of people have attempted redesigns of Craig's List (http://www.vanseodesign.com/web-design/craigslist-aesthetics/). It's something of a fun exercise for web designers. The redesigns all look nicer, but none really improve on the site. Web design isn't just making things pretty. It's about making sure people can find what they're looking for on the site and making it easy for them to do what they want. Aesthetically it's about matching the look with what the site is trying to say. CL actually does those things pretty well.

Do I think it could be improved? Absolutely. I don't think a new classified site is going to draw people to it because it looks nicer than CL though. It's going to take more.

[billbenson]

IMO Amazon.com is butt ugly. I don't think it should be changed though except for areas of usibility (not beauty).

[KristineS]

I think there are two issues here. One, as Vangogh has pointed out, is the issue of whether or not people are feeling enough pain with Craigslist to want an alternative. What are they complaining about, and are their complaints of a serious enough nature that they would jump to some site that could do relatively the same sort of thing but do it better while addressing their issues?

The second issue is that you need to get people to come to whatever new, fabulous site you build, and pulling people from something that is already established and works pretty well requires a lot of marketing skill and generally a lot of money. You can build the best mousetrap in the world, but if the mice don't come your way it doesn't matter how good your mousetrap is. I would think the bigger challenge of developing a Craigslist competitor would be letting people know about it and convincing them to give it a try.

[vangogh]

IMO Amazon.com is butt ugly. I don't think it should be changed though except for areas of usibility (not beauty).

I'm glad you mentioned usability. So many people seem to think design is just making things pretty. That's not design. The pretty part, aesthetics, is part of design, but design is a lot more, including usability. Craig's List is not a pretty site. That doesn't mean it's a poorly designed site.

@Kristine - Yep and yep. CL seems to work well for the people who use it. I don't know that their going to jump to another classified site because they're currently happy with CL. At the same time there are surely some people who aren't satisfied with how CL works for them. Find those people and listen to their complaints and it should point the way toward building an alternative to CL.

Even with a "better" site for some people you still need to attract them to the site and get them to use it. People aren't going to start using an empty classified site. That's why I suggest going niche in some way to start. You won't need as many people using the site for the site to be busy enough to attract the next set of users to help it grow.

[scottish]

craigslist has the advantage of being established and the market leader, to topple them your going to need to spend $10,000s. The expense of toppling an online giant is why sites like ebay and amazon have not much competition. facebook beat myspce but think of the amount of effort that took! good luck though, you might do it.

[GreaterVisibility]

There have been other classified sites to come out, like backpage and kijiji, and neither have seemed to have any impact on CL's place in the marketplace. CL does need work, a ton of work. Just getting rid of the crazy spammers that post their ads ten times in a row would be nice, or the clear scams that are posted on there. A classy version of craigslist, without the escorts and the scams, the junk and the spams, would be very nice. I just don't know how in the world you would get noticed enough to draw people away from CL because they have such a large piece of the pie. Ebay can be improved upon, and there are a ton of other auction sites out there, but ebay is where you turn to buy or sell something in that environment. The other sites just can't attract a large enough audience at once to make it worthwhile. The exception to that is a site like Etsy, which is a niche site. Maybe there could be a niche free classified site developed.

[vangogh]

Getting rid of the spam would certainly be nice, though I know it's not as easy as it seems on the surface. It is something we'd all like to see them do. But like you said there are other classified sites and they aren't pulling people away from Craig's List in significant numbers. There are reasons why. The value of a classified grows with the quantity of people using it as long as the content remains above a certain quality. CL has that. The site isn't pretty and there are things about it that can be improved, but it works and works well for the people who use the site.

I agree that going niche is the way to build your own classified site. Going niche provides more opportunities to tailor the site to a core audience and won't require as large a user base to get going.

[Russ in Vancouver]

CL has served me well over the years, I use it for renting out rooms to students. Not many complaints come to my mind. It's free, simple, straighforward and it protects my identity. After a while it's fairly easy to see who is real and who is a scammer.

They did implement a phone verification system in order to prevent one user from having hundreds of accounts to spam to the services categories. I would speculate that this effort did reduce the spam, lol, but it is still hardly made the surfing through garbage experience any better.

Trying to compete with CL would be more futile than resisting assimilation from the borg. However it is evident that there is room to survive in this market, as others have mentioned, niche markets. Then the marketing would be more targetted.

Best of luck James

[thegoodsoldiers]

I agree! I am not a huge fan of Craigslist set up and I do think they need some revamping but I guess they may have that mentality, if it ain't broke don't fix it lol. Tons of people use it so maybe to them simple is good enough for now.