Looking for knowledge

[Ninja Delusion]

Hi everyone.

I'm currently a 26 year old unemployed college student. Although in all humility I consider myself more intelligent than the average person, I have no serious work experience and cannot get so much as an interview from the local wal-mart. I make straight A's in college, but am become disillusioned by the collegiate debt-scheme and as I look around, a degree is little more than a dime-a-dozen pedant-endorsed article of vanity. I live in Florida and from what I hear and read, we have it pretty bad even when compared with most of the rest of the U.S.. This economy is only getting worse and obviously that makes it rougher on every one of you as small business owners---nonetheless, For all of my so-called "intelligence" I have been utterly impotent to devise an escape out my predicament--truly a comedy of futility. No one will take the time to train me (for how does one acquire experience when society will only hire experience?) and none of the menial mega-retailers will give me so much as an interview; the only one I know who will hire me is me. I am sick of not working. I am sick of being a burden on other people. I am sick of my "stillborn" life. I am sick of no one giving me a chance to prove my worth-- So it's time to make one for myself.

Please share with me how you all got started and any wisdom that you know now that you wish you knew back then. I have an additional obstacle to overcome in that I know "nothing" about "anything" for which I can enter into the business thereof, but any advice at all would be helpful. I really don't see any alternative for myself. Thanks.

[billbenson]

First what are you studying in college? The biggest thing I feel I got from college is learning how to learn. The cost of living is low in Florida which is where i live as well. When I had a real job, I worked for a California technology company selling and living in Florida. Anything internet based is good from Florida because you make the same wages no matter where you live.

Assuming you haven't honed in on what you would like to do yet, I'd make a few lists. Jobs that you would like to do, jobs that will make the most money, or I should probably say careers. I have an Electronics Engineering degree but have always worked as a salesman. I worked for companies as a salesman for 22 years, I'm now self employed, but still working as a salesman.

The days on counting on your career or job being around forever are gone. Even if you are successful, keep studying so you have a backup plan. I started out selling telecommunications equipment and I now sell some specialized construction equipment. Completely different skills. I started selling face to face, I now sell on the internet. Very different.

You have to figure out whether you want to do something that makes a lot of money, something you enjoy, something you feel strongly about, whatever. Then become an expert on it. Becoming an expert usually takes years not weeks.

So let us know a little more about what you want to do, your education etc., and we can give you better advice.

[Ninja Delusion]

Hi, thanks for responding.

I'm in school for an anthropology degree. I wanted to get into old world archaeology, but it seems less and less likely that such a thing can be achieved.
My strengths and passions are generally not practical for making a living. I enjoy reading, writing, thinking, philosophy, theology, etc. Nothing that can really be put to monetary use. I feel like I have the capacity to learn most things but as I said, finding someone willing to take you under their wing is also a "thing of the past" or so it has been in my experience at least.

[greenoak]

my impression of costal florida is that its hard to get good workers, guys who will show up....and there are lots of old people who need all kinds of service.....so what could you do in that line?
you could move to north dakota and get a job, supposedly they are hiring like crazy...
how about tutoring? or presenting a local and historial anthro program to schools?
what area would you like to work in? besides your major.?
where i go in florida waiters are making a lot of money... in some resturants
the unemployed 50 somethings would be amazed to hear that experience counts ....
i bootstrapped into a pretty big business, but did have a sheltered start , able to have a few years of no income,......now if i could be cloned im sure i could grow several different business ideas, but im deep into my field...... ..........
i sure wouldnt push retail but there are so many big open air markets down there...is there something you could buy to sell in one of them?
welcome, and i sure hope you can land on sometihng you really like and can get into...thats really nice in the long run......

[GreaterVisibility]

Hi, thanks for responding.

I'm in school for an anthropology degree. I wanted to get into old world archaeology, but it seems less and less likely that such a thing can be achieved.
My strengths and passions are generally not practical for making a living. I enjoy reading, writing, thinking, philosophy, theology, etc. Nothing that can really be put to monetary use. I feel like I have the capacity to learn most things but as I said, finding someone willing to take you under their wing is also a "thing of the past" or so it has been in my experience at least.

I'll just challenge this part of your post. The internet is full of people that make money by simply writing. Well, maybe it isn't quite that simple, but they write engaging content on various subjects, build an audience, and make money through affiliate programs and by selling premium content to that same audience. I listen to a lot of business podcasts, and many times they interview professional bloggers that make a living by writing online and having people that follow them. You can make money doing that whether you live in Florida or Timbuktu.

Like Bill mentioned above, sales is always a good thing to look into if you're any good at it. A good salesman can pretty much always find work. However, you have to like that in order to truly excel at it, and not everyone is really the type of person to make it in sales.

Perhaps you could start your own little service business by going solo and doing things like cleaning, detailing cars, carpet cleaning (all of which I do), lawn maintenance, pool care, painting, etc. Those are all things that you can start up yourself and make good money with. Even in a down economy there are people with money that need help around the house, and as people work more and more at their jobs, they have less time to work at their homes.

Just a few ideas.

Mike

[billbenson]

@Ann, Florida has low pay, no industry, lousy jobs as a general rule. Tourism and retirement are the big industries. They aren't doing well. An outgrowth of retirement was housing but we were hit hard by the housing crunch. Import export is big in Miami. Service industry obviously. Some area's are better than others. most of the money is from people that made it elsewhere.Of course there are exceptions. I'm one, but I did it by working for out of state companies and later by self employment selling mostly out of state.

@Ninja, first, finish school. Its important to have a degree these days even if it doesn't automatically get you a job these days. Its kind of like buying a lottery card. If you buy one, at least you in the game. Buying two doesn't improve your odds much but not having one and you won't win.

It sounds like you want or realize that you need to make money, so you not stuck on idealism. Your degree lens itself to becoming a professor or a researcher IMO. There may be other things that are profitable with you degree as well. My brother at 60 decided to get a theology degree. But he still works in Washington DC as a researcher.

You really haven't said if you want to be self employed or work for a company. Some business experience is good. Just about all of us have worked for a company at some time or another. Some people on this forum do things they enjoy and don't really have a career path to making large sums of money. They are comfortable, self employed, and doing what the enjoy. That's probably the majority. Others are doing things that can lead to becoming wealthy.

I'd still make that short list of things you want to do and research heavily that short list. And by that short list, I don't mean what you read on Yahoo News. They always have things on new careers that make more than most. A pharmacist is one that comes up frequently. But I bet that becomes saturated and they only make about $60k a year.

I think you should move to an area based on what your short list of jobs tells you.To me, the ideal job is one that trains you for a life long career path. Look at industries that aren't affected by the economy. Oil and Gas aren't going away soon. There are thousands of industries that support oil and gas. War's are probably going to be around. What industries support that?

So, in a nutshell, do your research, move to an area of the country that will be positive for your chosen career, keep studying and learning, and you will figure out a way to meet your objectives.

[greenoak]

my sister is in a ocean front condo that is still going great and service jobs are sure important to her...... i know florida is so poor.... but warm and cheap to live if you arent on the ocean!!! ..so i would still say service and old people are obvious florida possibilities, if you want to be there...finding someone dependable down there is what i hear my sis and her condo buddies complain about....how you break thru to be found and considered a safe dependable helper or worker is probably the hard part...

[billbenson]

my sister is in a ocean front condo that is still going great and service jobs are sure important to her...... i know florida is so poor.... but warm and cheap to live if you arent on the ocean!!! ..so i would still say service and old people are obvious florida possibilities, if you want to be there...finding someone dependable down there is what i hear my sis and her condo buddies complain about....how you break thru to be found and considered a safe dependable helper or worker is probably the hard part...

That's not much of a career plan for a straight A anthropology student.It's not going to pay much more than McDonalds (I know a nurse who did that for a while).

[greenoak]

for sure....i thought he needed a foot in the door for now.....

[Ninja Delusion]

Everyone--thanks for your replies. I've found them to be helpful in the face of discouragement. I really appreciate that you all took the time to respond.

Greenoak---
Your ideas are good but I do not have the credentials to start a scholastic program. Teaching however, was a long term backup plan though. I'm a long ways from that point, but it is certainly something I could probably do well in. Tutoring also seems like a decent odd-job to make some extra cash, but I know the colleges have free tutoring offered in the campus libraries and so forth. Still an idea with some potential. I'm not beyond the idea of sojourning somewhere else such as South Dekota, but I'm weary of doing something like that unless I'm positive I can sustain myself. School would also more or less end for a while as I would have to foot the additional burden of "out of state" tuition. If I could find a reasonable offer though I wouldn't be above taking it. Concerning your question in which fields I would like to work in apart from my major and those things I listed previously--I really don't know. Practically speaking, my interests aren't the most universalized. I guess I am "open" to exploration of most fields. I'm not particularly strong with the general public or in speaking-intensive roles, but I can manage in them.

Something I neglected to mention earlier is I enjoy critical thinking. I think its very rewarding to let an unanswered question stew in the mind until that eureka moment; this is a large part of archaeology. That said, I have an affinity for "investigation" such as in the criminal justice field--both in terms of forensic science and criminal investigation.

GreaterVisibility---
You're absolutely right about that. If you can acquire a large enough audience base, all manner of revenue can be made what with advertisements and so forth. myspace, youtube, facebook, twitter--all testaments to that. Finding the right platform is the hard part but once you do, that's an outlet of boundless potential. As for sales, I'm not particularly gifted in the art of the hustle since I'm somewhat timid by nature. However with the right training and with the right product I'm sure I could do that: the will to power as it were. Sales aren't my first option but I'm becoming more and more pragmatic as time goes on. Your service-oriented suggestions are all very attainable. While I have no ethical "business" trying to start a business in some of them (detailing, painting, etc.) for lack of working knowledge, others (lawn maintenance, carpet cleaning) don't seem like they're too far out of reach even for a vocational tabula rasa like myself.

Billbenson----

Yeah, Bill; even though I'm disillusioned with the collegiate system and believe its more scam than anything else nowadays, I want to finish my degree for three reasons: [1.] Because I (arbitrarily) want to; I finish what I start. [2.] On the off chance I can actually break into old world archaeology some day I would "need" the degree as prerequisite. [3.] Because that little piece of paper is some sort of evidence that prospective employers can at least look at and say to themselves, "This prospect is adaptable to learning new things and has a record-witness that he can follow through with something."

You're dead right that I'm not stubborn in ideals (though I retain the romanticism thereof for a best-scenario goal, I'm not so foolish) You're also right about professorship and research pretty much being the major range of degree value. I would prefer working in the hands-on interpretive/analytic capacity (excavation and research) rather than teaching at least in my prime years. I believe anthropology is actually supposed to be a nice study to have under the belt in the business world or so I remember reading once upon a time. (Knowing about other people's customs, etc. for a larger client spectrum. For instance you shouldn't shake hands with an Indian (India) businessmen because its considered vulgar; McDonalds made a TV add for them with two hands holding an hamburger which is a serious taboo there since they essentially use their left hand for toilet paper. For some cultures, shaking your head "no" actually means yes and vice versa--thumbs up is equivalent to the middle finger to others, and so on.)

You mentioned that I wasn't entirely clear if I had my heart set on starting a business or working for someone else--In truth, the short answer is either is just fine by me. I believe it is prudent to learn under someone else first. I guess its kind of like trying to be a head coach when you aren't even a coordinator; its quite a bit to grapple with. I've only entertained the idea of starting a business since I can't find work otherwise. I read somewhere that farming is going to prosper in the future while 'professions' will decline.


Greenoak post #2


finding someone dependable down there is what i hear my sis and her condo buddies complain about....how you break thru to be found and considered a safe dependable helper or worker is probably the hard part..."

Exactly. You can have every ideal trait in the world--its making people aware and believe that is the hard part--especially when they don't even respond to applications.



Billbenson: That's not much of a career plan for a straight A anthropology student.It's not going to pay much more than McDonalds (I know a nurse who did that for a while).
Greenoak: for sure....i thought he needed a foot in the door for now.....

You're both right. At this point I'm not above anything. Further and at the risk of sounding too pessimistic, I perceive that it really isn't about what you know so much as who you know. Until you can prove yourself to someone, you're nothing and have no merit. If you can trust someone with little you can trust them with much. So I'm not afraid to work from the bottom so long as there is the opportunity to climb.

[billbenson]

So I'm not afraid to work from the bottom so long as there is the opportunity to climb.

Exactly, my first job out of college (Engineering School) was a repair tech making $16k. I went from that in a matter of months to Field Service Tech which paid a little more. There was a job offer on the wall for a sales guy working in the South East (I was living in California) that hadn't been filled in quite a while. I applied and kept bugging the manager until I got the job. That paid $100k This was all within the same company and a two year or less time frame.

Absolutely be sure you can move and grow within the organization!

[Reflo Ltd]

Ninja,

I feel for you. You remind me of myself but without college.

Unfortunately the economy now creates an employers market where many applicants are vying for the same few jobs.... so employers have their pick of the litter, so to speak. They can therefore demand more than usual from those applicants.

Early on I realized that working for someone else limited my potential to earn and grow. Yes there is a stability in hourly or salaried employment but I had two issues. I never wanted to start at the bottom and earn a meager wage for what seemed like eternity.... and... I never had the experience to get into something that could eventually be a productive career.

Yet I was intelligent, honest and hard-working. Even as a teen I would regularly find work shoveling snow, cutting grass, doing odd jobs.

Now it is 20+ years later and I have done alright for myself. One thing you alluded to that I can guarantee is true is that it's not what you know, it's who you know. I don't mean this in the cynical cronyism sense but more so in the sense that people are likely to hire someone that they know or trust either personally or through a trusted recommendation or circle.... it's how you get your foot in the door.... but at this point, "what you know" keeps your foot in those doors.

I wish you much luck but times are tough. Create your own destiny. There are always needs for a multitude of services. Services are typically easy to provide but the downside is that this ease is an invitation to MUCH competition. If you do well at providing a particular service then hopefully the word gets around.... and then you can benefit from "who you know".

[Ninja Delusion]

Alright. Thanks again, everyone.

[huggytree]

why are you still in college at age 26? (are you going to be a doctor?)

did you start late?

if you started late why didnt you have a job while you were NOT in college?

as an employer that fact jumps out at me right off the bat.......8 years out of high school and your still in college

from what i hear Florida is got it pretty bad....i cant believe you cant get a part time job doing something...it must be much worse than here in WI

i dont believe there is ANY successful way for someone who has never had a job to be successful at business....

having straight A's in school and being a winner at life are 2 different things....they can over lap, but in many cases they may not....i have known many straight A college students that have no social skills and cant manage their life or daily living......being book smart and able to memorize things is not the same as being a straight A person at life......

i think you should spend your time trying to invent something....come up with a product and sell it to someone else.......

best way to start a business:

work for someone who does what YOU want to do...learn from him...see what he does well and not so well....get experience w/ dealing with customers

then start your own business...

i wish you luck on your job search....if something isnt working try something different...if you cant get an interview look at how your presenting yourself...your resume.......change it and see what happens

[Ninja Delusion]

i did start school late and was only part-time at first. This was because I lacked confidence, direction, (took me years to realize what I even wanted to study for) and funds. I also haven't been able to find work since 2008 when i was 23 (and was looking well before) when a difference with a supervisor caused me to leave sam's club.

[Ninja Delusion]

New question:

When you, as owners look at applications, what do you look for? What sorts of things are make or break? Obviously experience is a major thing, but what else?

[GreaterVisibility]

I don't do hiring in my businesses, but when I did many years ago I preferred to interview as many people as possible. To me, the application itself didn't mean so much. I wanted to meet and get to know the person rather than the sheet of paper. But that's just me. If something did stand out, it was more the negative things that jumped off of the page. Like if you can't spell or bother to use punctuation, you may not be a detail oriented person, and depending on the position, you might not work out. If it looks like you didn't care when you filled it out, then you probably don't care too much whether or not you get the job. So, be thorough. Don't talk so much about what you want FROM the company, or what you're looking for, talk about what you BRING to the company. It's basically a sales job. Sell yourself to that prospective employer.

I do listen to a lot of business information from various sources and podcasts, and from what I can tell getting a job isn't as simple as just filling out applications anymore, or posting your resume online. The world has gone to a social media frame of mind, and most jobs (particularly the good ones) are filled long before they ever get posted anywhere. You know someone on facebook, they hear of a job opening in their company and know that you need one, and bam, you've got an inside track. More than ever before, it could be that who you know is almost more important that what you know.

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure others may have differing opinions.

[SteveM]

I own a c-store, so a person's level of experience isn't as important as their ability to learn, be on time, and be honest. Obviously, you don't want a career as a cashier, but there are a lot of larger chains with advancement opportunities. Even McDonalds has career opportunities, as long as your work ethic is there and you aren't a whiner. There are jobs ANYWHERE for people who are willing to work hard, which seems to be a national epidemic these days.

When I was teaching aviation, I had plenty of fresh-out-of-high school students who figured spending four years in the aviation program would land them a 200K per year job flying for a major airline carrier. The first thing I'd tell them is "it doesn't work that way"! A person on the path to be a professional pilot has to spend many years in less-desirable, low-paying flying jobs building flying hours and type-rating different aircraft in order for even a regional carrier to look at them. I would tell the students that they would succeed in aviation ONLY if they really loved to fly, NOT to make the big bucks, because it would be a long time before they made any money at it. I would have to believe it would the same path for your career.

My advice:

Option 1 - try to find a job, any job, to build some experience. It sounds like you had a job at Sam's Club, but left because of a dispute with a supervisor. That would a red flag for me, BTW, because no one is going to succeed by being unable to put up with undesirable managers - they are a part of life and aren't going away. That is one of things that sways me from hiring people, even for a lowly c-store cashier position. Anyway, after getting a job, start looking for part-time positions in museums or similar venues where you could display your knowledge of the product. People will recognize that, and you will start advancing.

Option 2 - Get a secondary degree that has some monetary value. That was the other thing I used to tell students, because it is entirely possible you might not be able to find a job in your primary field of study, or lose it for some reason. Have a back up plan. You could even go to a tech school and learn a trade in the health care fields. You sound like a gentle, shy guy to me, so going into a demanding field such as sales or entrepreneurship may not work for you.

Good luck!

[Steve B]

I look for a logical resume with reasonable progression. Length of time at previous employers is the easiest thing for me to weed out the duds. If you've had 4 jobs in 2 years - I'll pass every time. If you stay with a job for over a year or two, then move on to another job that is similar, but a step up, that is the kind of thing that I like to see.

When it's time for the interview, I try to spend as much time as possible with the person if I'm serious about hiring them. I'll take them to lunch and talk to them for a couple or three hours if possible.

[NewbytoBiz@123]

I feel your pain....I know it's hard especially when the economy is on the downside and no one wants to even come close to interviewing a potential employee. I don't have the same problem as you and I can say this. My father told me to "go where the money is"....what he meant was to major in a study where the market is in demand for. I went into healthcare...ugh! but not quite because I have been able to find a stable employment throughout my years as well gain quite an experience with sick folks. I did continue to further my education after ten years of experience in the medical field. Once I received that I ventured out and tried something never thought I would do...I got myself into business. And this is where my problem starts...I wish you can help me as well. But I'm not going to let my sob stories hold me down. I know you are capable to let yourself be your own boss and make something out of yourself despite the economy. If it means returning back to school and changing your major, there's no harm in getting an education. This will open the door to better opportunities.