An entrepreneur wanna-be

[rami]

Hi,

I have been trying to crack open this entrepreneurship nut for the past few years but it hasn't been working out too well for me. I think that I've been going about it the wrong way and spending too much time and money.

So, I'm trying a new approach: Testing demand for the ideas before I invest a ton of money (and time- Need to spend some time marketing).

I have an idea which I'd like to request feedback on. Can I post a link and solicit feedback here?

Looking forward to being part of this community.

Best regards,
Rami

[vangogh]

Welcome to the forum rami. Going about things the wrong way isn't necessarily a bad thing. We all make mistakes. The trick is to learn from your mistakes in order to do better next time. Most successful people failed many times on the way to success.

As for your question about posting a link, the answer is no. I deleted your two prior posts with the link. There's nothing on the other side of the link that needs feedback. It's just a short page asking us to sign up for your newsletter. We don't allow people to create threads and posts for the purpose of promoting their business, which is how your two previous threads came across to me.

If you want us to provide some feedback on your idea, just tell us about your idea. Tell us about what you're offering and how you're trying to convince people to accept that offer. Having a newsletter is a good idea and a good way for you to stay connected to people who've shown an interest in you, what you have to say, and your offer. Sending people who don't know you or what you're about to sign up for your newsletter isn't such a great idea.

If you want to test whether or not people are interested in getting tips about marketing, I'll tell you outright they are. There are plenty of people online offering tips and plenty of people wanting to read them. If you're looking to test whether or not people will sign up for your newsletter you can set up an AdWords campaign. Spend a couple hundred dollars on ads taken people to your sign up page. That should send enough traffic to the page to test if it's working. If you don't want to spend the money are are willing to wait longer for results, keep working on your blog. Offer the same tips on your blog as you offer in your the newsletter. Build up an audience around the blog and through it promote your newsletter.

[rami]

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I definitely was not trying to promote a business as there is no business to promote. It's just a free newsletter. :) I don't even plan on putting up ads. All I was looking for is exactly feedback like yours.

As you've correctly pointed out, the whole purpose of the page is to get exactly the kind of feedback you provided in the last paragraph so that I can optimize and offer something that is actually needed and differentiated before I spend tons of money and time.

Offering products and services is a scientific process which requires hypothesis testing, validation and optimization. Rinse and Repeat.

I am in the process of tweaking the offer now thanks to your and other feedback I received.

The problem is that if I am not allowed test my hypothesis on forums like this, how are my prospective customers ever going to get something that they genuinely need? Would you guys consider having a section for testing new ideas? I'd be happy to help moderate it.

By the way, Google is refusing to run my ads because they think that I'm doing ad arbitrage, which is extremely silly, as I never had any ads on the site!

[vangogh]

Glad I could help. No worries about the previous threads. I didn't think you meant any harm with them, but I did want you to understand why they weren't allowed.


The problem is that if I am not allowed test my hypothesis on forums like this

Forums like this don't exist for you to test your hypothesis. If you want people here to visit your site, contribute to the community. Help us out by offering good advice. Get to know people here. If you put in the time and effort to help the community, the community will reciprocate. Your newsletter is offering marketing tips and your sign up form makes the claim you've had a successful career as a marketer. Surely then you can come up with ways to generate traffic to your site, without needing to post links on forums.


, how are my prospective customers ever going to get something that they genuinely need?

How do you know they genuinely need your idea? I thought you were trying to test whether or not it was needed. Even if it is true that people genuinely need what you have to offer, it doesn't mean they need to get it from you.


Would you guys consider having a section for testing new ideas? I'd be happy to help moderate it.

No. I'm not interested in setting up a section on the forum just so you can test your idea. That's something you should do on your site.


By the way, Google is refusing to run my ads because they think that I'm doing ad arbitrage, which is extremely silly, as I never had any ads on the site!

Has your account done arbitrage on another site?

[Harold Mansfield]

As you've correctly pointed out, the whole purpose of the page is to get exactly the kind of feedback you provided in the last paragraph so that I can optimize and offer something that is actually needed and differentiated before I spend tons of money and time.

Offering products and services is a scientific process which requires hypothesis testing, validation and optimization. Rinse and Repeat.

I agree with you about testing, but, "before I spend tons of money and time" is the road to failure. None of us would be in business had we thought like that. Once we knew there was a market that would pay for what we do, we spent tons of time and money to make it work.

The only thing you need to know is if there is a need, and a large enough demographic to capitalize on. After that, you have to be willing to give it 100% or you'll never know if it would have worked had you presented it properly.

Not too many people are going to sign up for a "Would you be interested in.." kind of proposal. They sign up because you've enticed them with quality content that solves their problems, or entertains them.


The problem is that if I am not allowed test my hypothesis on forums like this, how are my prospective customers ever going to get something that they genuinely need?

The same way everyone else does it. By growing your own market in which to test, or spending money on advertising. You can't just go around dropping sign up links on forums. That isn't really any kind of market research. As VG said, it's obvious that people are always looking for information. The hard part isn't trying to figure that part out. The hard part is getting noticed in the sea of people already doing it.

Look around. A lot of us write blogs and have newsletters. You'd be better off asking us how we do it to get some tips, and then testing out a few things to see what works for you.

[vangogh]

"before I spend tons of money and time" is the road to failure. None of us would be in business had we thought like that. Once we knew there was a market that would pay for what we do, we spent tons of time and money to make it work.

Exactly. There's going to be a test that tells you 100% you'll be successful or that an idea will work. You're always going to have to give it a try without knowing in advance if you'll be successful. There are so many components to it too. Your idea could be great, but your execution of the idea poor. You can get most parts of your execution right, but get a couple of key things wrong.

The thing is you may very well fail a few times before you succeed. If you ask a lot of successful people how they got that way, they'll likely tell you they failed and tried again applying what they learned. That doesn't mean you stick with an idea forever, but it does mean the only way to know if it will work is to try.

If you're looking to market through forums there is a way, though it doesn't involve dropping links back to your site. This will work for all social sites like Facebook and Twitter, etc. You do what you can to contribute to the community. That's pretty much it. Most communities, this one included allow you to add a link to your profile. Forums usually allow you to add a signature with links as well. Then you help people in the community. Answer questions where you can. Start and participate in interesting conversations. It'll take some time, but as long as you're contributing people will want to know more about you and they'll click on your profile and signature links. Some will like and need what you have on the other end and become customers or clients or blog or newsletter subscribers.

It all comes down to to getting out there and making real connections with real people. Out there could be in other communities like forums or Facebook or Twitter. It could also be on your own site through a blog. In your case it seems like your plan is to offer marketing tips. That's great and if you look around you'll find many, many people wanting marketing tips. So offer tips through your blog. When you see someone asking how to market their business on a forum, offer some advice. Post links to Twitter recommending good articles about marketing that aren't yours. Post a daily marketing tip to a Facebook page.

All of those things will get the word out that you can help people with their marketing. If you genuinely provide useful advice and consistently provide it people will sign up for your newsletter and buy things from you or hire you.

[Steve B]

Why don't you just tell us your idea so we can comment on it? If it can't be summed up in a few sentences then you probably don't have a viable idea.

[rami]

Thank you all for the great feedback. And I'm being serious. This is good stuff.

It looks like there's still a misunderstanding. I'm not using this forum to get people to my site and buy stuff from me. I have no business yet or anything for people to pay for. So let's just move on from that point.

Testing demand is extremely important before a big investment is made. That's how successful companies do it; At least Internet companies and pharmaceuticals. Once one or two hypothesis are confirmed, then a big investment is made to make those hypotheses into real features, products or services. Testing includes talking to people, reaching out to friends of friends, spending a few dollars on ads, etc.- All of which is stuff I'm doing. Posting on this forum was just another channel for me. I've already gotten great feedback and have been optimizing and testing the optimizations.

When I asked to have a section for testing ideas. I wasn't just talking about me. I'm not that selfish or vain! I'm not going to moderate my own ideas. That would be a silly. The section would be open for everyone. Obviously, some rules will need to be put in place, like "no links back to your site", which I learned from this discussion (thank you vangoh :))

P.S. I never did ad arbitrate and don't plan on ever doing it. I've actually spent thousands on AdWords ( and a few hundred on Bing/LinkedIn) for another idea I had a few years ago. I learnt the hard and expensive way that the idea is horrible. Hence, my venture into testing and iterating.

[rami]

As for the idea- it is:

To offer a free weekly online marketing tips newsletter to small businesses with less than 5 employees.

I've already optimized it twice after testing my original idea with a few other folks.

I'm thinking of niching myself even further and focus on small businesses in the medical/dental profession, accounting or law.

[Harold Mansfield]

I've dealt with 2 lawyers, One Medical practice and one Dentist and all of them had one thing in common...their web marketing sucked. They had nothing. They knew nothing. But the bigger issue is that they weren't really interested in learning cause their peers are equally weak with it.

It's hard to get certain, well paid professionals interested in doing more than a website. They are still yellow pages and TV ads people cause it works for them. But they are highly competitive. The reason each of them gave me for wanting to redo their website, is that one of their peers redid theirs and they wanted one just like it.

[rami]

Thanks Harold for adding another validation point for me. Great Website by the way.

My idea came about after speaking with my dentist friend and my barber about marketing, in general, and online marketing, specifically. I also did a lot of research on the state of small businesses, they're online spend, their attitudes towards online advertising, etc. Like you, I discovered that they are really, really good at their respective professions but aren't too marketing savvy. My dentist friend went as far as outsourcing his online marketing and spending thousands only to find that his competitors were using the same firm. And he didn't think that he's getting the most bang for his buck. So he stopped.

But you know what the problem is? 90% of shoppers actually search online before visiting a local establishment. And with the proliferation of smartphones that number is probably now closer to 100%. It is imperative that local businesses, no matter how well paid they are, to do online marketing, let alone having a nice looking Website similar to yours. Word of mouth only gets you so far with the number of customers.

[Harold Mansfield]

Thanks Harold for adding another validation point for me. Great Website by the way.
Thank you. Much appreciated.


But you know what the problem is? 90% of shoppers actually search online before visiting a local establishment. And with the proliferation of smartphones that number is probably now closer to 100%. It is imperative that local businesses, no matter how well paid they are, to do online marketing, let alone having a nice looking Website similar to yours. Word of mouth only gets you so far with the number of customers.

We've been having the mobile conversation around here for a while now. There's some good stats linked on this one:
http://www.small-business-forum.net/internet-marketing/7159-interesting-study-consumers-new-multi-screen-world.html

I've read stats from Microsoft that say they expect 60% of search to be mobile by 2013. I too think with the flood of cheap tablets, that it will be higher than that.

But that's not the main problem. People with smart phones and tablets are starting to recognize it. And usually if you throw them a few credible stats and studies, they get the "Oh crap!" moment. But like I said, the bigger issue with professions like Medical professionals, Accountants and Attorneys is that they are stuck in the 90's when it comes to marketing. The funniest commercials ( not funny because they are humorous, funny because they are terrible) in any market are the local Attorneys.

It's just really hard to get people who are already making 6-7 figures, to give a damn about web marketing.

There are exeptions though. A few of the local attorneys here have thier own native smart phone apps to take accident pictures and such. And I've even seen some with QR codes in thier adds, but they advertise them on TV. TV still rocks if you can afford it, and they can.

So I guess I'm contradicting myself. Some are coming around, so it may be time to start talking to them.

[DeniseTaylor]

Hi Rami

In the offline world what you need is called market research. In the online world it's called keyword research.

Either way, if what you are trying to do is new or something people aren't familiar with, it can require some creative approaches to get people to understand what it is you're offering, or just plain old persistence.

At any rate, I agree with vangogh - mistakes don't equate to failure. It's all part of the learning curve. The key is to persist and keep learning and trying, improving along the way. Very few entrepreneurs are successful immediately.

[vangogh]

rami I have a question for you about your idea. I do think what you're wanting to do makes sense. My question is what are you planing for a business model? You mentioned the newsletter would be free. Are you thinking of selling advertising in it? Were you going to offer services connected to what you write about in the newsletter? Maybe sell products based on what's in the newsletter?

Just trying to think through the different possibilities. I do agree that dentists and barbers and many local businesses aren't always the best with marketing. In some cases all they need is word of my mouth. My dentist doesn't have a great website or a huge online presence, but he's got so many patients I couldn't imagine he needs to think much about additional marketing. However not everyone is like that and could certainly use some online marketing.