Best bang for my ad dollar

[lionize]

Ok so I have a $100/mth to work with and want to do some effective advertising. The target is very narrow and should respond well if I can catch their attention and get my offer in front of them. Is there a solution available at that price or will I need more money to even consider an effective ad campaign?

[nealrm]

It depends on the market you are planning to reach. If your target market is all in one local spot, then reaching them for $100 is doable. If your market is spread across the US, then you are not even close.

[Steve B]

I don't think it's doable no matter how small your market is. Unless you want to hire a couple kids to hand out business cards in a crowded parking lot. That's the only thing I can think of that would cost $100 or less.

[lionize]

What about email marketing or search? They are well within my budget, why wouldn't you consider them an option?

[Steve B]

I can't imagine you would do an effective e-mail marketing for $100 per month. But, that is one avenue I've never looked into. Let me know what the details and prices are for e-mail marketing - maybe it's something I should try.

[lionize]

Constant Contact is the leader as far as I know and here (http://www.constantcontact.com/email-marketing/pricing) is their pricing. I was also expecting adwords to be suggested, any thoughts?

[Freelancier]

You are starting with a budget but no mention of the target audience.

Marketing starts with the question "who are you trying to reach and how would they find you if you didn't reach out to them?"

In other words, one of my businesses offers programming services. My target audience is small businesses that usually don't have an IT department who wants to use technology to save or make more money. They likely aren't a part of a business networking group (at least in my area, where we have tens of thousands of business owners who don't have time for those groups), so they would resort to a simple search on something like "software development". So now I know not only the channel I need to use to reach them, but also the types of messages that will appeal to them through that channel.

So... your turn, lionize: who is your target audience and how would they look for someone like you?

[nealrm]

lionize,
given the limited information you provide, any suggestion would be guesses. Before any real advice can be given we need to know more. Are you wanting to advertise to new or existing customers, can the target market be reached at one location either geographics or digitally, are you marketing the sale of new or additional production and services, how expensive is the product, how competitive is the market? All of those are factors in the effectiveness of a marketing campaign.

Sure for a $100 dollar you can spam ten of thousand of people, your response maybe one person. For a $100 per month you can do an adword campaign that will bring in additional web traffic for very specific keywords to a very limited market. It would be in web traffic, no promises on sales. For a $100 a month you can do a decent newsletter to existing customers to encourage repeat sales IF you are selling that type of product or service.

However, without specific, the above are just guesses.

[Harold Mansfield]

Before you do any advertising on the web, you need to get the destination in order. You can't just throw ads out there and just hope that it will turn into people contacting you until you prepare the action that you want them to take when they get there.

Most people build specific pages to direct their ad traffic to, that are more or less additional advertising or promotions, with the purpose of either getting people to buy a specific product, fill out a form for more info, download coupons, call a phone number and so on. Build the complete path that you expect people to take. Don't just send them to the home page of your website and expect them to look around and decide to contact you.

If you just toss ads out there on hope, nothing will happen and you'll waste your money. However once you have your plan together, you could probably spend $100 a month on Facebook (with some tweaking and fine tuning) that will get you some response if targeted properly.

[informedbiz]

lionize, there are some great comments here.

I agree that your information is limited. Until it is revealed what you offer, how you are going to offer, who do you want to reach, etc, any conversation here will only serve to confuse you.

Can you market effectively on a $100 per month budget? Yes and No.

You mention email. It a great way to reach people if you have their info already. Otherwise, you need a way to get their info. (You should do this anyway)

Please, do not waste your money hopping from one marketing effort to another. Do some research, ask more questions, form a conclusion, commit to action.

There are some good people her that will be glad to assist you.

[SuperSteemLLC]

I don't think it's doable no matter how small your market is. Unless you want to hire a couple kids to hand out business cards in a crowded parking lot. That's the only thing I can think of that would cost $100 or less.

It is doable, you can get 5000 flyers or business cards made up for that amount. Now dispersing the flyers or business cards is going to take some legwork, which takes a lot of time. If you are just getting started sometimes that is your only option. That is what I did at the beginning. Its hard work but rewarding. Once you get the customers, retain them and you are on your way.

[lionize]

Okay so my target market are SMB's looking for a premium .ca domain at an affordable price. They are narrow in scope because the domain name will define a very specific market (ie. TourBus.ca (http://www.TourBus.ca)). They can be broad in scope because any company worldwide looking to reach the Canadian market could benefit from our product. At the moment, they mostly find me through direct navigation and occasionally through organic search.
I believe that there are numerous businesses which could benefit from a premium domain but are not even aware that they are available, let alone affordable.

[Harold Mansfield]

Okay so my target market are SMB's looking for a premium .ca domain at an affordable price. They are narrow in scope because the domain name will define a very specific market (ie. TourBus.ca (http://www.TourBus.ca)). They can be broad in scope because any company worldwide looking to reach the Canadian market could benefit from our product. At the moment, they mostly find me through direct navigation and occasionally through organic search.

Domains are a tough sell. There are only so many possible customers for each one, and that's it.
Very few Small Businesses even know domain brokers and resellers exist, and those that do aren't paying reseller prices.

I don't see your market as being small businesses at all. I see it as being large businesses, marketing and ad agencies. THAT'S who buys domains for client websites, promotion and marketing campaigns. A Small Business will just register the best that is available and move on.

[lionize]

I see it as being large businesses, marketing and ad agencies.
If I were focused on selling I would agree with you, but because I am promoting a short term leasing option (should have mentioned this), I feel that the larger organizations would not be as interested.


A Small Business will just register the best that is available and move on.
This is true but with time they should quickly become frustrated by the poor results their weak domain provides them.

[Harold Mansfield]

If I were focused on selling I would agree with you, but because I am promoting a short term leasing option (should have mentioned this), I feel that the larger organizations would not be as interested.
Again, a tough business model. You'd have to have some stellar, premium domains to pull that off. Reasons why below...


This is true but with time they should quickly become frustrated by the poor results their weak domain provides them.
Marketing is more than just your domain. If you're the kind of business that can afford to lease a domain, you're probably also the kind of business that can afford to market ANY URL no matter what it is.

Marketing campaigns today are unpredictable. Business have figured out ways around having the "perfect" domain, and instead are now creatively coming up with the marketing first and are registering phrases that match the campaign.

Keyword domains are good for SEO, but what small business ( on a budget) is going to invest time and money in SEO on a leased URL? Let alone build a website on one?

Also, type in traffic, the kind that industry keywords attract is really not that prevalent like it was 10 years ago. Very few people type in a URL like "movingtrucks.com", they instead type it in search to see what's available. The days of whoever owns the keyword wins, are over. "Cars.com" isn't popular because they have "cars.com". They are popular because they advertise on TV 24/7.

There is no better example of that than sex.com. Once the most popular and expensive domain on the internet, back when people typed in URLs. Now, not so much because no one is typing in just "sex" anymore. The same with Poker.com. There are many players now that get far more traffic..because they have great marketing and part of that is creating a brand, not just having a generic keyword or phrase.

I don't want to pour sand on your business model, I just think the whole domain lease thing kind of fizzled out a few years ago. As a small business, I don't see the benefit being so great that I'd spend money on it, unless like I said, you had some really stellar, cool urls...and even then, I wouldn't lease it. I'd make you an offer to buy it. If no sale, I'd move on.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but again, only if you have some GREAT URL's and I still don't think it's sustainable for the long haul.

[lionize]

Thanks for the help Harold, I appreciate it.

[billbenson]

I agree with Harold. I would never lease a domain. If I don't have complete control of my domain, I don't want it.

[lionize]

I agree with Harold. I would never lease a domain. If I don't have complete control of my domain, I don't want it.
Bill the lease does not eliminate the possibility of purchase, it is simply a way to reduce the price enough to open up the market. Although you and Harold see no benefit to leasing a premium domain, that does not mean that others will not...fortunately for me. Why you would choose to register and completely control a bad domain instead of leasing a superior domain with limited control is hard for me to understand but your choice none the less. I would imagine leasing commercial land may have faced the same criticisms at one time.
The truth is I am not asking whether you approve of my business plan or wish to lease a domain from me. I simply want to know the best way to reach out to those that would benefit from the use of a premium domain name at an exceptionally low price.

[Harold Mansfield]

Why you would choose to register and completely control a bad domain instead of leasing a superior domain with limited control is hard for me to understand but your choice none the less.

OK, your business plan aside for a second....I'm kind of bewildered with your tone that unless people lease a domain from you, then they have a bad URL.

You don't have any "superior" domains or else you would have sold them for 4, 5 and 6 figures by now. "Superior" domains were purchased at least 10 years ago.

Second, domain registration is $12. You're acting as if it's some big hardship to register your company name or something decent that you can market for your business. IT IS NOT.

Third, I can see a lot about this is hard for you to understand because you have committed yourself to believing that type in traffic is still relevant enough for people to lease a domain just to have it. I don't care what URL you have, it can be beat it in the SERPS. Having an exact match domain is not guarantee anymore that you will be #1 in the SERPs...which is what people use to look for information and services. The search bar. NO ONE types in a keyword.com anymore to look for things. Google killed that noise 5 years ago.

You also seem to be completely unaware of any other kind of marketing. A good marketer can make garbage brandable. In the grand scehme of things that a small business has to worry about with marketing, the URL is not where you want to dump a huge amount of money and definitely not worth leasing...unless it's just completely hideous of course.

I have a LOT of experience in this area. I started in the web business brokering, leasing, and selling domains for someone with over 10k in his portfolio that he started building the first day of domain registration. Ever. In the world.
So I'm not just saying these things to be argumentative.

The last good deal I saw was "LasVegasEscorts.com" for $1500 mo. and that guy had that deal for years. But, not many people are doing that anymore. It's an obsolete methodology. And certainly not small business start ups.

Now if you had domains like poker.com, cars.com, flowers.com and so on, you could probably do well with that business model. But not with 2 and 3 word combinations and phrases. A small business' money would be better spend owning their own domain, and putting that money into SEO and marketing. Small Businesses on a budget HATE being locked in to someone else controlling their destiny. It's a bad business move.

Now, I say all of that to return to my original suggestion that most small businesses know NOTHING about all of that. Most small businesses also start on a budget. So to me, targeting people who aren't knowledgeable, and don't have the money seems like a waste of advertising.

Also, something it took me 3 years to learn the hard way. Don't target people that you have to sell to. Target people that already know what it is and need your services. If you do that, you'll get fewer calls, but the ones you get will be closes. Not pitches.

[lionize]

OK, your business plan aside for a second....I'm kind of bewildered with your tone that unless people lease a domain from you, then they have a bad URL.

You don't have any "superior" domains or else you would have sold them for 4, 5 and 6 figures by now. "Superior" domains were purchased at least 10 years ago.

Second, domain registration is $12. You're acting as if it's some big hardship to register your company name or something decent that you can market for your business. IT IS NOT.

Third, I can see a lot about this is hard for you to understand because you have committed yourself to believing that type in traffic is still relevant enough for people to lease a domain just to have it. I don't care what URL you have, it can be beat it in the SERPS. Having an exact match domain is not guarantee anymore that you will be #1 in the SERPs...which is what people use to look for information and services. The search bar. NO ONE types in a keyword.com anymore to look for things. Google killed that noise 5 years ago.

You also seem to be completely unaware of any other kind of marketing. A good marketer can make garbage brandable. In the grand scehme of things that a small business has to worry about with marketing, the URL is not where you want to dump a huge amount of money and definitely not worth leasing...unless it's just completely hideous of course.

I have a LOT of experience in this area. I started in the web business brokering, leasing, and selling domains for someone with over 10k in his portfolio that he started building the first day of domain registration. Ever. In the world.
So I'm not just saying these things to be argumentative.

The last good deal I saw was "LasVegasEscorts.com" for $1500 mo. and that guy had that deal for years. But, not many people are doing that anymore. It's an obsolete methodology. And certainly not small business start ups.

Now if you had domains like poker.com, cars.com, flowers.com and so on, you could probably do well with that business model. But not with 2 and 3 word combinations and phrases. Any small businesses money would be better spend owning their own domain, and putting that money into SEO and marketing. Small Businesses on a budget HATE being locked in to someone else controlling their destiny. It's a bad business move.

Now, I say all of that to return to my original suggestion that most small businesses know NOTHING about all of that. Most small businesses also start on a budget. So to me, targeting people who aren't knowledgeable, and don't have the money seems like a waste of advertising.

Also, something it took me 3 years to learn the hard way. Don't target people that you have to sell to. Target people that already know what it is and need your services. If you do that, you'll get fewer calls, but the ones you get will be closes. Not pitches.
Thanks for the help Harold, I appreciate it.

[SuperSteemLLC]

I have been having great success with adwords.

[Harold Mansfield]

I don't want you to think that I'm saying that your URL isn't important. It is. I'll be the first person to counsel someone that if they can find a great domain for sale, get it. However, you are proving my point. If you followed in your business what you are trying to sell and tell other peple they should do, your URL would be "PremiumDomainLeasing.ca" or something to that effect, but it's not.

Even you understand that an exact match URL is not neccessary for success these days. Sure, it would be great to have, but it's also about marketing and branding your company, which is what you are doing.

So, how do you propose to sell it to small businesses, when you aren't even doing it?

[lionize]

It is doable, you can get 5000 flyers or business cards made up for that amount. Now dispersing the flyers or business cards is going to take some legwork, which takes a lot of time. If you are just getting started sometimes that is your only option. That is what I did at the beginning. Its hard work but rewarding. Once you get the customers, retain them and you are on your way.
Thanks for the encouragement SuperSteemLLC and you are right about the limited options. I started this thread because I don't have lots of money to invest in advertising. Your ideas are exactly what I was searching for.
How long did it take before you started to see results?

[lionize]

So, how do you propose to sell it to small businesses, when you aren't even doing it?
My business is Premium Domain Leasing, Sales and Services. Premium domains are not exclusive to keywords and I think that Apple purchasing iCloud.com for 4.5 million dollars is one obvious example of that. Hopefully now you can see the connection between my business and my domain.

[Harold Mansfield]

My business is Premium Domain Leasing, Sales and Services. Premium domains are not exclusive to keywords and I think that Apple purchasing iCloud.com for 4.5 million dollars is one obvious example of that. Hopefully now you can see the connection between my business and my domain.

I totally understand your intent. I did it. And once again you are proving my point that this type of thing appeals to businesses who have the resources. Not small businesses who are trying to keep expenses low.

And Apple PURCHASED, iCloud. They aren't leasing it. A company like that would NEVER lease a domain.

You asked about advertising and getting the best bang for your buck. Well part of that is knowing who to target...THAT'S how you get the most bang for your buck. Not just looking for the cheapest way to scream at people.

Take it from someone who wasted years targeting the wrong market. It's not about what YOU think they need, it's about what they WANT. Or else you will be banging your head against the wall trying to sell to the wrong people.

When you have a larger budget, THEN you can spread out and sell to people with education about why they need what you have. And you can do that now with blogging and other outlets for free. And you should be already doing that.

But when you have limited money to spend, in a highly competitive industry, you need to go right for the people who are looking for what you have. Not the people you need to convince.

[lionize]

you are proving my point
Thankfully someone is.


And Apple PURCHASED, iCloud. They aren't leasing it. A company like that would NEVER lease a domain.
Again, my business is Premium Domain Leasing, Sales and Services and I know they purchased it, that is why I said "...I think that Apple purchasing iCloud.com...", you must have missed that part. Furthermore, the example was used to educate you on what a premium domain is, not why leasing is viable. Try to reference my statements within the context they are used.
Oh and I am sure Apple appreciates you speaking for them.


Not just looking for the cheapest way to scream at people.
What?

[Harold Mansfield]

. Furthermore, the example was used to educate you on what a premium domain is

OK, I think we're done here. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[MasBro]

The best bang for the ad dollar is good SEO. Second best is Adwords (when done by a pro). Oddly, one of the biggest bangs from my experience with local clients has been flyer distribution. Pay a bunch of kids to run a bunch a flyers around the neighborhood. Stick them on doors, car windshields and so forth. People aren't always happy to read a flyer that has been stuck on their car or door, but they will. Just make sure your flyers don't all end up in a dumpster.

[ericw]

If you need to target a specific audience, Google Adwords can be very effective if the campaigns are optimized by professionals.

[lionize]

Yes I have learned that adwords is not for amateurs. How much of my budget will professional optimization consume?

[Freelancier]

How much of my budget will professional optimization consume?

My first time in, I wasted about $3000 before I figured it out.

The most important thing is to be as specific as possible in your search keywords and geographic limitations. Broad search terms are a license for Google to steal from you.

[Wozcreative]

Who in their right mind would "lease" a domain after they've spend enough time marketing it.. you technically own it and can take it away from them. Also what would happen to your business if someoen took that domain and used it for spam and got it blocked on many servers? It would be black listed by google etc. It would be useless then. This makes no sense to me. Maybe I get "lease to own" type of thing.. then I'd consider it.

[Dan Furman]

anyone else find it amusing that we're talking about leasing domains worldwide, and half the ideas thrown out are "get business cards or hire a kid to put flyers on windshields"?

[billbenson]

Well you need the business cards to pick up girls :)

[Wozcreative]

Yes I have learned that adwords is not for amateurs. How much of my budget will professional optimization consume?


If you plan to make money.. a lot. I think the likelihood of people paying much for domains is sort of close to the likelihood of winning a lottery or at the casino. Sure you can throw lots of money for tickets, but you won't necessarily win them back and more. Especially since you mention you are amateur at marketing your business. A business like that is all marketing.. no "referrals, no.. repeat customers etc." You're just a one off guy who has to sell to many different people knowing that they won't come back for another purchase from you.. so you will be forever.. selling.. and spending money on a regular basis to keep your business afloat if you want it to be a viable business..

Also I googled the service (i havent heard of it at all before you.. shows you how crappy these guys also market to people like me who deal with registering domains on a regular basis). .. so.. given that there ARE businesses out there that do what you do how will you even differentiate yourself from the other guys that have done it for longer?


Another point.. a business that relies on "premium" domains to stay premium.. yet.. you don't know how to make sure they stay that way? I can go out and buy cars and try to sell them.. doesn't mean I know anything about them and how I need to keep them "premium" and what I need to do to sell them? Business out of a hat it sounds like. My favourite is those guys that try to hire me to build and design a website for their clients.. and they have NOO idea how to sell the product! Same concept.

[Dan Furman]

Well you need the business cards to pick up girls :)

Holy @#$%, I sooo did that once.

What a weekend.... :cool:

[lionize]

The case for leasing a domain is the same as leasing commercial land. There is a finite supply of both and that is what makes each viable. The idea of leasing is still hard for people to accept (which this thread has made very apparent) and no I am not discouraged by this. In fact, I am far more concerned when everyone agrees with me.
Anywho...ask yourself - if you could afford it and the terms were fair, would you rather register HaroldsWebDesign.com for $10 per year (and yes, it is available) or lease WebDesign.com for $10,000 per month. The former requires a massive marketing campaign to simply become competitive while the later sells itself. Then there is the massive gap in potential a premium domain has over a poor domain. And if you are wondering how to distinguish between premium and poor:


You.com is better than You.AnythingElse is better than AnythingYou.Anything. Please keep in mind that this only applies to keyword domains.

Even more important and what many refuse to acknowledge is how highly dependent the success of their entire business is on SEO and google. Only one of the domains above will outlive search and yes not only do I believe that search will die, but I would argue that it has already begun. And if I am right, I foresee many seeking much needed therapy for passing up a premium domain not once but twice.
Now, am I leasing domains of the same caliber as WebDesign.com, obviously not. Is it possible that the planets infatuation with .com domains will wane in the future...I guess only time will tell.
The key to any successful lease agreement is making sure that it is fair for both parties, so all the fears nice people like you have about leasing domains must be addressed before this idea will become widely accepted.

[Harold Mansfield]

Anywho...ask yourself - if you could afford it and the terms were fair, would you rather register HaroldsWebDesign.com for $10 per year (and yes, it is available) or lease WebDesign.com for $10,000 per month. The former requires a massive marketing campaign to simply become competitive while the later sells itself. Then there is the massive gap in potential a premium domain has over a poor domain. And if you are wondering how to distinguish between premium and poor:


You.com is better than You.AnythingElse is better than AnythingYou.Anything. Please keep in mind that this only applies to keyword domains.




Leasing a domain is NOTHING like leasing land. Sure there's a finite supply of certain domains on each extension...there's a finite supply of URLs that start with the letter "Q", but that doesn't mean there's value in them.

This shows how little you know about marketing and business. You have a one track mind that yours is the only viable solution because you don't know how to do it any other way.

You are correct that there is a finite supply, so that proves that there are far more businesses that do just fine without an exact type keyword domain.
I can give you a million examples of search terms where the person that owns the exact match IS NOT first, nor gets the bulk of the search traffic. As long as that is reality, your going to have a hard time selling the opposite like you just came from 1993.

Given the choice of spending $10k a month on my own marketing, or giving you $10k a month just for a domain that I'll never own and STILL have to pay for marketing, it's a no brainier. You lose. I can get a lot of useful marketing for $10k that far exceeds what I'll get from a domain.

It also proves that the last thing you learned about user behavior, search patterns, and how people look for information was 10 years ago.

It's not about just getting general search traffic anymore. It's about getting targeted traffic. And while I agree having a keyword domain would be preferable if you only want to rank one page for one keyword and that's it, but it's only one aspect of your page score today.

The other 25 factors that determine your page's SEO score can totally compensate for it and you'll do just fine if you do it correctly. Seriously, when was the last time you read any of Google's SEO updates and tips?

And if you really HAVE to have a keyword in your URL, there's these things called page titles and sub-domains that you can do anything you want with because you OWN your own domain.
And no matter what domain you have, you still have to do marketing.

So dude, you really aren't getting it. Your arguing an old principle to promote a business model that flashed out at least 5 years ago. At least it did in the U.S. Maybe things are different in Canada.



Even more important and what many refuse to acknowledge is how highly dependent the success of their entire business is on SEO and Google. Only one of the domains above will outlive search and yes not only do I believe that search will die, but I would argue that it has already begun. And if I am right, I foresee many seeking much needed therapy for passing up a premium domain not once but twice.


For this to be true, you are basically saying that only 10% of all online businesses will survive and that no other form of marketing will ever be viable again. Either we all fight for the few domains that meet your criteria, or there is no hope that we will ever succeed.

And yet, you are surrounded by people who are succeeding in spite of your dated opinion of what kind of domain they need.

Also, I've looked at your offering of domains and you don't have anything premium. You're about 15 years late on this business model and the domains that you should have registered back in the 90's.


Now, am I leasing domains of the same caliber as WebDesign.com, obviously not.
The fact that you aren't even practicing what you preach with your own domain, speaks volumes. Why would anyone buy what you are selling if you aren't practicing it? What would you tell people who look at what you are proposing, and then look at what you are doing and ask, "Why can't I just do what you are doing?".


Is it possible that the planets infatuation with .com domains will wane in the future...I guess only time will tell.
It did already. You missed it.

You should get out more. Businesses have been getting creative with TLDs, ccTLDs, and Domain Hacks for years now. Read a tech mag sometimes and look at some of the URLs that today's start ups are registering. Even with millions in seed money, these guys aren't spending thousands on domains. Because it's not neccessary. That money is better used for development, and marketing.

And any business that's looking to create value for itself, will OWN it's domain. Not be at the mercy of a 3rd party. Who wants to buy a company that doesn't even own it's own URL? It's a waste of marketing and a nightmare waiting to happen.
It's actually more beneficial to drop the domain lease agreement and remarket one that you actually own.

It's a bad business move.

The key to any successful lease agreement is making sure that it is fair for both parties, so all the fears nice people like you have about leasing domains must be addressed before this idea will become widely accepted.

You are 10 years late. This idea was already an accepted practice years ago and now it's over. So if you are waiting for it to come back, I think you'll be waiting long time. And if it does, you don't have the inventory to capitalize on it because you don't have any premium domains. You have domains with words put together, but most are not the caliber that anyone would lease, and hardly any of them are exact match, heavily searched terms. But you do have a couple that someone may buy outright for a few hundred dollars.


Normally, I don't crap all over people's business ideas, but you've been kind of insulting in this thread with that whole "We don't know what a premium domain is" and someone needs to bring you back down to earth.

[Wozcreative]

Leasing a domain is NOTHING like leasing land. Sure there's a finite supply of certain domains on each extension...there's a finite supply of URLs that start with the letter "Q", but that doesn't mean there's value in them.

This shows how little you know about marketing and business. You have a one track mind that yours is the only viable solution because you don't know how to do it any other way.

You are correct that there is a finite supply, so that proves that there are far more businesses that do just fine without an exact type keyword domain.
I can give you a million examples of search terms where the person that owns the exact match IS NOT first, nor gets the bulk of the search traffic. As long as that is reality, your going to have a hard time selling the opposite like you just came from 1993.

Given the choice of spending $10k a month on my own marketing, or giving you $10k a month just for a domain that I'll never own and STILL have to pay for marketing, it's a no brainier. You lose. I can get a lot of useful marketing for $10k that far exceeds what I'll get from a domain.

It also proves that the last thing you learned about user behavior, search patterns, and how people look for information was 10 years ago.

It's not about just getting general search traffic anymore. It's about getting targeted traffic. And while I agree having a keyword domain would be preferable if you only want to rank one page for one keyword and that's it, but it's only one aspect of your page score today.

The other 25 factors that determine your page's SEO score can totally compensate for it and you'll do just fine if you do it correctly. Seriously, when was the last time you read any of Google's SEO updates and tips?

And if you really HAVE to have a keyword in your URL, there's these things called page titles and sub-domains that you can do anything you want with because you OWN your own domain.
And no matter what domain you have, you still have to do marketing.

So dude, you really aren't getting it. Your arguing an old principle to promote a business model that flashed out at least 5 years ago. At least it did in the U.S. Maybe things are different in Canada.



For this to be true, you are basically saying that only 10% of all online businesses will survive and that no other form of marketing will ever be viable again. Either we all fight for the few domains that meet your criteria, or there is no hope that we will ever succeed.

And yet, you are surrounded by people who are succeeding in spite of your dated opinion of what kind of domain they need.

Also, I've looked at your offering of domains and you don't have anything premium. You're about 15 years late on this business model and the domains that you should have registered back in the 90's.

The fact that you aren't even practicing what you preach with your own domain, speaks volumes. Why would anyone buy what you are selling if you aren't practicing it? What would you tell people who look at what you are proposing, and then look at what you are doing and ask, "Why can't I just do what you are doing?".


It did already. You missed it.

You should get out more. Businesses have been getting creative with TLDs, ccTLDs, and Domain Hacks for years now. Read a tech mag sometimes and look at some of the URLs that today's start ups are registering. Even with millions in seed money, these guys aren't spending thousands on domains. Because it's not neccessary. That money is better used for development, and marketing.

And any business that's looking to create value for itself, will OWN it's domain. Not be at the mercy of a 3rd party. Who wants to buy a company that doesn't even own it's own URL? It's a waste of marketing and a nightmare waiting to happen.
It's actually more beneficial to drop the domain lease agreement and remarket one that you actually own.

It's a bad business move.


You are 10 years late. This idea was already an accepted practice years ago and now it's over. So if you are waiting for it to come back, I think you'll be waiting long time. And if it does, you don't have the inventory to capitalize on it because you don't have any premium domains. You have domains with words put together, but most are not the caliber that anyone would lease, and hardly any of them are exact match, heavily searched terms. But you do have a couple that someone may buy outright for a few hundred dollars.


Normally, I don't crap all over people's business ideas, but you've been kind of insulting in this thread with that whole "We don't know what a premium domain is" and someone needs to bring you back down to earth.

Harold, you are SPOT ON! Did a much better job of explaining it than I did, I tend to go on tangents ;)

I love the comment about domains being like land too.. land is sold with SO much more in consideration than a domain is (it's history, the soil, the space, the location, what you are/arent allowed to build there etc etc etc... list goes on).

I'm still wondering why the whole keyword domain thing is still a viable excuse to call a domain "premium?"—— take a look at an article I just found on domains that have been sold for high prices in 2013:First Week of the 2013 Domain Sales Season Finds Trio of DomainNameSales.com Transactions at Top of the Chart (http://www.dnjournal.com/archive/domainsales/2013/20130116.htm)

Notice how most of them are just gibberish? Usually it's not soo much about traffic or "keywords" as it is to a domain that "fits" within a company's future plans... example icloud.. 10 years ago no one would even consider doing anything "i.....com" related. Hey if you still keep banging that drum to the same beat.. you won't convince anyone. It's not about keyword searches anymore.

[Harold Mansfield]

The bottom line is, it's more important that a business own all of it's collateral, than it is to have that perfect domain if it means leasing it from a 3rd party.

You could offer me WordPressWebDesign.com (If it wasn't a trademark infringement), but unless you're going to sell it to me you may as well keep walking. There is nothing out there that is worth taking the risk of leasing my company URL and online identity from a 3rd party. I don't care what you have.

It's a bad business move that businesses have already learned from back in the day when people were leasing websites. (Yes, people used to lease websites). The business world has already been burned on this and has moved on.

These days businesses want more control of their web marketing not less. There isn't one domain that is so important to a business that it means success of failure online. I don't care how many different ways you keep trying to sell that it is. There are just too many options today.

Any savvy business owner would rather register something close, brandable, or marketable...even if it's made up, than pay to lease branding. I'd rather register 10 URLs and put up 9 additional landing pages, than to lease my URL from someone.

[lionize]

Normally, I don't crap all over people's business ideas, but you've been kind of insulting in this thread with that whole "We don't know what a premium domain is" and someone needs to bring you back down to earth.

Harold...really, do you honestly think that your opinion is that valuable? Truthfully man, knock yourself out.
I do suspect, however, that all your negativity may stem from that hack you have decided to identify your business with. I am starting to see why the whole premium domain subject is so frustrating for you. Why would you even attempt to discuss a subject you obviously have no real knowledge of. I mean your url is a four letter acronym completely unrelated to your business and intended for a group of people on a different continent. Do you see why it is impossible to take anything you say seriously.
Oh and I never suggested anyone but you needed to be educated. Buona fortuna a voi Harold.

[Harold Mansfield]

Harold...really, do you honestly think that your opinion is that valuable? Truthfully man, knock yourself out.
I do suspect, however, that all your negativity may stem from that hack you have decided to identify your business with. I am starting to see why the whole premium domain subject is so frustrating for you. Why would you even attempt to discuss a subject you obviously have no real knowledge of. I mean your url is a four letter acronym completely unrelated to your business and intended for a group of people on a different continent. Do you see why it is impossible to take anything you say seriously.
Oh and I never suggested anyone but you needed to be educated. Buona fortuna a voi Harold.

Really "iVenture"? That's a little Pot calling the Kettle black isn't it?
Want to compare traffic stats?
How many times did your phone ring today Shawn?

However, I'm glad that you could get that off your chest. You win. I'm stupid and know nothing about Internet Marketing.

[billbenson]

Harold...really, do you honestly think that your opinion is that valuable? Truthfully man, knock yourself out.
I do suspect, however, that all your negativity may stem from that hack you have decided to identify your business with. I am starting to see why the whole premium domain subject is so frustrating for you. Why would you even attempt to discuss a subject you obviously have no real knowledge of. I mean your url is a four letter acronym completely unrelated to your business and intended for a group of people on a different continent. Do you see why it is impossible to take anything you say seriously.
Oh and I never suggested anyone but you needed to be educated. Buona fortuna a voi Harold.

Your responses on this thread have either been skeptical of your business model or as Dan mentioned, things like door hangers which make no sense for a national business. Nobody really came in and said 'hey, that's a great idea' except you.

There are people here from all kinds of successful businesses. Quite a number of web designers, web copywriters and people who make their business online. I fall into the latter category.

Also be aware that there are a lot of competent people on this forum who could have responded to this post but didn't

While Harold may have been the most vocal and pissed you off, you might want to think about why nobody was really supportive of your idea. You could read into that, that in general experts in the industry don't really think its the best business model.

You aren't an expert because you haven't even done it yet. Sure, you have done more research than any of us have in that exact business model. At least I hope you have. But you might want to sit back and look at others opinions or absence thereof in the case of the people who didn't respond to this thread but often respond to others.

If you add everything up, I think you need to do more research and a lot of testing before you sink a lot of money into this venture.

[Freelancier]

My $0.02 (which used to be worth $20, but inflation frittered it away...):

The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Come back in a year and tell us how successful you are and how much continuing revenue you're generating from your venture. Until then, you're just another person with a "great idea" and nothing to show for it to prove how great it is.

I think the idea is a bust as well, but that's just me. I'd never recommend leasing a domain URL to any of my clients under any circumstance. Better they should put the money into SEO and get ranked higher by the search engines for various important short keyword phrases, which is the primary way people look for a site now. But that's just me and I'm not everyone in the universe, so I accept that my opinion is just my opinion.

On the other hand, proof is proof. Show us the money. In a year. Until then, good luck executing on your idea.

[Wozcreative]

Harold...really, do you honestly think that your opinion is that valuable? Truthfully man, knock yourself out.
I do suspect, however, that all your negativity may stem from that hack you have decided to identify your business with. I am starting to see why the whole premium domain subject is so frustrating for you. Why would you even attempt to discuss a subject you obviously have no real knowledge of. I mean your url is a four letter acronym completely unrelated to your business and intended for a group of people on a different continent. Do you see why it is impossible to take anything you say seriously.
Oh and I never suggested anyone but you needed to be educated. Buona fortuna a voi Harold.

I'm quite sure Harold has had that domain for long enough to build a sustainable business off of it. It actually goes to show you that domain does not matter.

If you look at my own statistics.. I have the word "creative" in my domain.. it is a common name.. and hey so is "woz".. but the keywords that are being used to find my site are:

• Freelance graphic designer toronto
• elwira freelance web design toronto
• freelance web design toronto
• freelance web designer toronto
• packaging freelance designer toronto
• toronto freelance pcakgage designer


and about 4 people who googled "woz creative" or "wozcreative" hah.

See a trend here? It's all in the SEO. AND it's also LOCATION based. TADAAAA! :p
How much business inquiries do I get a week? Enough that I'm busy until the end of August. I've had to turn down 6 quote requests JUST THIS WEEK. And my website only is a 1 pager.. it's all in what you put on the site. Time to get off the 2001 domain keyword stool you've put yourself on.

[lionize]

Really "iVenture"? That's a little Pot calling the Kettle black isn't it?
Want to compare traffic stats?
How many times did your phone ring today Shawn?

However, I'm glad that you could get that off your chest. You win. I'm stupid and know nothing about Internet Marketing.

You are some piece of work man. I don't know why I am wasting my time with you but what the hell.
iVenture.ca: "i" stands for Internet, while "Venture" stands for business. So my domain name literally stands for Internet Business. Domains are an essential part of the internet and therefore necessary for doing business online. The extension or TLD portion of my domain is .ca and that is Canada's official domain space. This is the country I live and operate my business in.
nhab.it: "nhab" is four letters of the alphabet. The extension is .it which is perfect for people from...Italy??? When you combine the second level with the top level it kind of sounds like inhabit.
inhabit:
1. to live or dwell in (a place), as people or animals: Small animals inhabited the woods.
2. to exist or be situated within; dwell in: Weird notions inhabit his mind.
3. Archaic. to live or dwell, as in a place.
I don't know what else to say to you, except that hopefully your marketing skills are as impressive as you claim. How else will anyone find you, unless they are searching for an apartment in Florence I guess.

[billbenson]

You are some piece of work man. I don't know why I am wasting my time with you but what the hell.
iVenture.ca: "i" stands for Internet, while "Venture" stands for business. So my domain name literally stands for Internet Business. Domains are an essential part of the internet and therefore necessary for doing business online. The extension or TLD portion of my domain is .ca and that is Canada's official domain space. This is the country I live and operate my business in.
nhab.it: "nhab" is four letters of the alphabet. The extension is .it which is perfect for people from...Italy??? When you combine the second level with the top level it kind of sounds like inhabit.
inhabit:
1. to live or dwell in (a place), as people or animals: Small animals inhabited the woods.
2. to exist or be situated within; dwell in: Weird notions inhabit his mind.
3. Archaic. to live or dwell, as in a place.
I don't know what else to say to you, except that hopefully your marketing skills are as impressive as you claim. How else will anyone find you, unless they are searching for an apartment in Florence I guess.

You really are an idiot. If Harold gets business from his domain he is doing something right. He has been here for a long time and is obviously making money or he wouldn't be here. You, you haven't done anything and are an expert on marketing international domains which you know nothing about.

[lionize]

You really are an idiot. If Harold gets business from his domain he is doing something right. He has been here for a long time and is obviously making money or he wouldn't be here. You, you haven't done anything and are an expert on marketing international domains which you know nothing about.

I'm sorry, did the truth cause you some discomfort.

[billbenson]

I'm sorry, did the truth cause you some discomfort.

No, I have more respect for someone who is making money from their business model than someone who has no idea if they will or will not make money from their business model.

I have recommended that this thread be closed. Name calling has no value and that seems to be what you like to do.

[lionize]

No, I have more respect for someone who is making money from their business model than someone who has no idea if they will or will not make money from their business model.

I have recommended that this thread be closed. Name calling has no value and that seems to be what you like to do.

Please don't, I am just getting warmed up here. Ahh whatever, have a good night guys. ttyl.:)

[Wozcreative]

Hey dude, the fact IS harold is making money on his funny sounding domain.. you can pick it apart as much as you want.. he's still rolling the $ in, and you'll still be sitting there trying to spend $100/month to market a crummy idea that none of the developers/designers here (with years and years of experience) think will work :D

Again.. the fact that you haven't convinced us.. shows you need WAY more than $100/month to push that idea. Good luck!

[Harold Mansfield]

Is this what your existence on this forum is going to be? Lashing out like a kid at whoever disagrees with you?


You are some piece of work man. I don't know why I am wasting my time with you but what the hell.
Let me give you a tip. You can't win on this because you are completely uneducated on the issue and lack the ability to learn or discuss anything. So I'm telling you ahead of time, that no matter what you respond with to defend your archaic position about Internet Marketing, I'm going to prove you wrong.



iVenture.ca: "i" stands for Internet, while "Venture" stands for business. So my domain name literally stands for Internet Business.

Sure, in your mind. But what does that have to do with leasing domains? Or domains in general, which is what your business is? Nothing.

You're not in the "internet business". You don't build the "internet". You are in the 'premium" or keyword Domain, and Domain leasing business. Technically, you're in Marketing and SEO...so it's no wonder that you are having trouble attracting clients, you don't even know what you are supposed to be.

So you are using creative marketing to brand 'iVenture" to be synonymous with that. Nothing wrong with that. But apparently it's only stupid if someone else does it....like say to use the word "Apple" which has nothing to do with Computers, and yet they successfully branded it to mean that...which disproves your position.

Don't even get me started on the "i" thing and trying to capitalize on the familiarity that Apple has created for it. How original. It's not like everyone and their mother didn't jump that bandwagon back in 2001-2007 when all of their "i" products started coming out.


Domains are an essential part of the internet and therefore necessary for doing business online. The extension or TLD portion of my domain is .ca and that is Canada's official domain space. This is the country I live and operate my business in.
nhab.it: "nhab" is four letters of the alphabet. The extension is .it which is perfect for people from...Italy??? When you combine the second level with the top level it kind of sounds like inhabit.
inhabit:
1. to live or dwell in (a place), as people or animals: Small animals inhabited the woods.
2. to exist or be situated within; dwell in: Weird notions inhabit his mind.
3. Archaic. to live or dwell, as in a place.
I don't know what else to say to you, except that hopefully your marketing skills are as impressive as you claim. How else will anyone find you, unless they are searching for an apartment in Florence I guess.

Yes Copernicus that's WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO! Give that man a prize he's stumbled over the obvious. It's supposed to sound like "inhabit". It's supposed to be a 4 letter domain. THANK YOU for the affirmation that it is immediately recognizable as that.

Here's another search engine newsflash for you, MY SITE IS IN ENGLISH. Not Italian. So no, it does not rank in Google.it because it is optimized to rank for ENGLISH search terms and it does just fine for that.

I knew the risks and hurdles associated with using a ccTLD or "hack" and made the decision that I wanted. You don't need to like it because it has nothing to do with you. You need to worry about handling your own business.

Have you EVER read ANYTHING about SEO? You sound like you just crawled out of a cave that had caveman carvings of URLs on the walls and decided that the past is where the money is

So now you want to attack me for what I've named my business? OK, let's go down that road now...

What does an "Apple" have to do with Computers?
What does the word "del.icio.us" have to do with Social Bookmarking?
What does the word "Yahoo" have to do with Search Engine?
What does the word "Mashable" have to do with Social Media?
What do the words "Fat Cow" have to do with hosting?
What do the words "Go Daddy" have to do with domain registration?

Look around Shawn. It's called "Branding" and "Marketing". You should really look those words up because you have no idea what they mean. Using your logic, "Ben and Jerry's" should be called "Ice Cream made by 2 guys from Vermont" and every resturant would be named "food place" and they would sit back and wait for people to search for that to get business.

Many, MANY companies around the world use ".it" to mean "Information, or Internet Technology", or simply as the noun "it" or to complete the spelling of a word or hack that ends in "it".

Just like companies use ".TV" (from the country of Tuvalu), to mean Television.
".FM" (from the Federated States of Micronesia) to mean Radio or FM Radio station.
".AM ( Armenia) Used to spell words, or complete phrases to signify "am" as a verb.
".ME" (Montenegro) to mean me personally.
".de" (Gemany) to spell words that end in "de".
".co" (Columbia) as an alternative to ".com"
".dj" (Djibouti) used by Disk Jockeys.

You ever hear of these companies?
Instagr.am ( it's original URL and they still own it and it now redirects to instagram.com)
Hongki.at, (.at is Austria)
Youtu.be (.be is Belgium)
Bit.ly (.ly is for Libya, by the way)
Blip.tv,
Redd.it. (now owned by Condé Nast Publications)
Play.it ( CBS Music)
Dlvr.it
Fold.it
Who.is (.is = Iceland)
Thebea.st (.st is the ccTLD for São Tomé and Príncipe)
Good.es (.es is Spain)
mir.aculo.us
Chir.pn (.pn is Pitcairn Islands)

There are even local businesses where I live that use ".lv" ( Latvia), to signify "Las Vegas" , as well Los Angeles businesses that use ".la" ( Laos).

Some other creative names from recent start ups that I copied from an older thread on this subject:

Noodlecrumbs - Crowd Funding
Mashery - API Management
Chute - Photosharing
Wooga- Gaming
Tintri - Storage
Keen - Mobile analytics
Moasis- Web Ads
Wajam- Social Search
BaubleBar- Retail
Hipmunk - Travel
iZettle - Mobile Payments
Vidyo - Video Conferencing

And the list goes on in the THOUSANDS of American companies that use creative marketing or ccTLD hacks to name and brand their company.

So you know more about, Branding, Marketing, The Web, and SEO than all of these companies (and every other) that are far more successful than you, and they are all stupid like me because it is THEY who don't get it. Is that what you are sticking with?

You are really uninformed about what's going on around the web. They are called domain hacks, and when the associated registrars open them up to international registration and ownership, this is how corporate America and companies around the world uses them for branding.


I don't know what else to say to you, except that hopefully your marketing skills are as impressive as you claim.
Nothing you can say. You are completely out of the loop of where domains and branding have gone in the past few years.


How else will anyone find you, unless they are searching for an apartment in Florence I guess.
And yet people do. Everyday. Because my pages are optimized to capture specific search queries and I use other methods of generating targeted traffic online and attracting new clients offline.

Do you know anything about the web and SEO? No one is sitting back waiting for their domain to do all of the work anymore Shawn. It's not the 90's. If you do that, you will fail and people like me and far better than I, will beat you up and down the SERP's.

I may not be a marketing genius, but you are truly stuck in your own mind. You have no awareness of the world around you, and have decided that if you ignore it, then it doesn't exist. That is no way to be successful in life or in business.

You literally, and I mean literally, only seem to be capable of thinking INSIDE the box. That's strange for someone who's marketing knowledge is one single page out of the 1990's when "thinking OUTSIDE the box" was the catch phrase of the day.

[Harold Mansfield]

By the way, these domains in your portfolio:

iPhoneService.biz,
iPhoneServices.biz
are trademark infringements. They were available because they are worthless and no one would dare touch them to use for anything.

Not to mention the fact that no one in their right mind would lease a ".biz" when Go Daddy is practically giving them away at $5.99 a year to register them. They're right next to the .info discount bin.
You can't even sell a .biz for beer money these days. A one word .biz will barely get you $100 in a sale.

Also these 2,
DefenceAttorney.ca,
DefenceAttorneys.ca are misspelled.
Defense as it pertains to Legal action is spelled "Defense", not "Defence". Google's internal spell check doesn't even make them a viable adsense domain to capture mistypes. They are also worthless.

I highly doubt anyone would lease misspellings and what is surely a cease and desist order from Apple waiting to happen.

You would think a domain and marketing professional who is so experienced in the "Internet Business" would know this and would have all of his ducks in a row before trying to launch an attack against someone elses business.

If I was even remotely interested in your services and strained my eyes ( because the text on that page is FAR too light) to see those domains as your offering of "premium" domains, I'd immediately know that you are running some kind of grift and have no idea what you are talking about.

[lionize]

DefenceAttorney.ca,
DefenceAttorneys.ca are misspelled.
Defense as it pertains to Legal action is spelled "Defense", not "Defence". Google's internal spell check doesn't even make them a viable adsense domain to capture mistypes. They are also worthless.

I highly doubt anyone would lease misspellings and what is surely a cease and desist order from Apple waiting to happen.

You would think a domain and marketing professional who is so experienced in the "Internet Business" would know this and would have all of his ducks in a row before trying to launch an attack against someone elses business.

defence - Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defence)

[Harold Mansfield]

defence - Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defence)

So you are proposing that a business brand and market an unrecognized, uncommon, alternative spelling to represent their business, because the actual, most used spelling is not available?

You're actually suggesting that a little creativity is the way to go here?
You're saying that an attorney could make that spelling synonymous with "defense" and rise in SERP's and attract traffic?

But doesn't that go against your entire position on internet marketing?
All of those well thought out points that YOU JUST made about how people who do that don't know what they are doing?

I'm confused.
Which is it?

By the way, that's ridiculously self serving. No attorney wants a URL with "defence" in it. And you know it.
But nice try.

[lionize]

So you are proposing that a business brand and market an unrecognized, uncommon, alternative spelling to represent their business, because the actual, most used spelling is not available?

You're actually suggesting that a little creativity is the way to go here?
You're saying that an attorney could make that spelling synonymous with "defense" and rise in SERP's and attract traffic?

But doesn't that go against your entire position on internet marketing?
All of those well thought out points that YOU JUST made about how people who do that don't know what they are doing?

I'm confused.
Which is it?

By the way, that's ridiculously self serving. No attorney wants a URL with "defence" in it. And you know it.
But nice try.

What I am suggesting is that if the universe centred around you like you believe it does, then yes, "defence" would be misspelled. But because the world consists of more than just you, your two friends and google's spell check, there is more than one way to spell some words and "defence" just happens to be one of them. Canadians, as well as many other countries around the world do not spell this and many other words the same way that you do in America. Why would a Canadian attorney misspell their domain name because you HAROLD spell it differently in a completely different country than the one he/she does business in?

So you see how your arrogance has you convinced that you are far more intelligent than you truly are (no of course you don't, that would require some humility). This is the single cause of our present argument and likely many other confrontations you have experienced throughout your life.
I really have no desire to continue this nonsense but refuse to allow you to spread misinformation about my business and the domain industry. You and your friends here obviously benefit financially from this misinformation you are spreading on a forum which just happens to have the same keyword characteristics I offer my clients.

Let me say one other thing, do not confuse my posts here with any desire to educate you. Although that is obviously needed, I could care less if you ever evolve or mature. My responses to you are for those that may happen upon this thread and could possibly be mislead by your idiocy.

Have a great day Harold Mansfield.

[Harold Mansfield]

What I am suggesting is that if the universe centred around you like you believe it does, then yes, "defence" would be misspelled. But because the world consists of more than just you, your two friends and google's spell check, there is more than one way to spell some words and "defence" just happens to be one of them. Canadians, as well as many other countries around the world do not spell this and many other words the same way that you do in America. Why would a Canadian attorney misspell their domain name because you HAROLD spell it differently in a completely different country than the one he/she does business in?
OK, I'm willing to accept that. I typed in "defence attorney" in Google.ca and did indeed find a Canadian Attorney that spelled it "defence". Although, defense was still the most popular spelling.

What kind of defence do you have on the iPhone trademark violation?



So you see how your arrogance has you convinced that you are far more intelligent than you truly are (no of course you don't, that would require some humility). This is the single cause of our present argument and likely many other confrontations you have experienced throughout your life.
I really have no desire to continue this nonsense but refuse to allow you to spread misinformation about my business and the domain industry. You and your friends here obviously benefit financially from this misinformation you are spreading on a forum which just happens to have the same keyword characteristics I offer my clients.

So now it's everyone else who is crazy, and no one here knows what they are talking about?
I see.


Let me say one other thing, do not confuse my posts here with any desire to educate you. Although that is obviously needed, I could care less if you ever evolve or mature. My responses to you are for those that may happen upon this thread and could possibly be mislead by your idiocy.

Have a great day Harold Mansfield.
Sorry, got confused by your comment about "educating me on what a premium domain is".

I think you are the one that has received the education here. Mainly, don't come on a business forum and start insulting other people's businesses because they don't agree with you. You're going to lose that battle every time.

When this thread started, I was generally offering advice to help you with what you asked for help with. You are the one that started acting like a 5 year old and telling me how stupid I was when you didn't hear the answers that you wanted to hear.

My advice to you is that you start practicing what you preach on your own website and not get so "defencive" when confronted with the reality that you don't have all of the answers, have much to learn, and that there is more than one way to do things.


With all the hype surrounding social media, it is clear that we are not like other internet based companies. You won't find us on some other website for the single purpose of self-promotion or posting comments simply because everyone is doing it.


When I made the decision to start a company, I did so with the conviction that I would conduct my business with integrity. Unlike conventional companies, we do not operate our business like we are participating in a competition. Instead, we choose to focus our time and energy on the satisfaction of our client. We believe that seeking cooperative partnerships with others is far more productive and beneficial for our clientele than fearing our competitors.

It should be obvious to you by now that anyone with a little bit of current Marketing and SEO knowledge is going to question you. You'd better prepare yourself to answer to that in a more professional manner. If you can't stick up for your business model without being insulting, then maybe it's time to re-evaluate your business model.

We all have to keep up with changes in technology, competition, and new ways to do things to keep our businesses relevant and profitable.

The only people that I have ever heard/read talk about how great domain leasing is, are people who own domains and are trying to survive because PPC, typos and parking is dead. If you listen to nothing but other domainers, they'll have you believing that the world can't survive without them and every domain that isn't theirs is a huge mistake.

Domainers have been talking like this for well over a decade. And yet, businesses continue to survive online, and thrive every year in spite of their apocalyptic predictions that all marketing is dead, Social Media is a fad, and only people with "category.com" will survive online. They are bitter because Yahoo and Google busted thier arbitrage and fake traffic scams, so now they are sitting on these portfolios that no one is buying, so naturally anyone who doesn't buy or lease a domain from them is stupid.

The problem with that is that there are only a handful of "category.com"s (or .ca's or whichever TLD and ccTLD), and there are more domainers trying to make a living from them, than exist. So that means most of you have garbage and incoherent words and phrases forced together to try and pass off as viable. If you stare at almost any domain long enough, you'll start talking your self into little perfect scenarios that make them valuable in your own mind.

I know the leasing pitch: "If the business doesn't work out, then you don't have the expense of owning the domain". That's all bull and you know it. The "expense" of owning a .com domain is $12.99 a year. If it's a keyword or premium domain and is any good and you own it, it's an asset not a liability.

The business has turned into a bunch of grifters and you're trying to sell Small Businesses on something that makes absolutely no sense for them. Hence why I tried to suggest that maybe you target the specific businesses that it does make sense for....and that's when this thread fell apart. You didn't want to hear that.

Running a leasing scheme and walking around with the attitude of "Who wouldn't want one of my far superior domains, over their own crappy domains" makes you sound just like one of those pissed off domainers that never learned how to do anything else on the web, and now think we're all stupid for doing what businesses have done for years. Marketing.

What makes me so smart? Like I told you, I used to be one. And when all you surround yourself with is Domains, and Domain "gurus", you start beleiving all of that garbage. But once you get out into the real world and actually start talking to business owners instead of at them, and actually start learning more about online Marketing, your understanding of the web business broadens and you realize that there can be more to it than that. And that no one is sitting around waiting and hoping for you to come along and drop the perfect domain in thier lap.

A lof of the domain argument is still true, but it's been bastardized with so much BS that Domainers don't even realize that they are thier own demize. All of these schemes and the amount of over priced domains on the market, has caused marketers to compensate in other ways, get back to basics, and avoid dealing with them all together.

Instead of lashing out at me for pointing that out, you need to be trying to find a way to adjust that will make your business relevant in 2013.

No one has all of the answers. But most of us around here are smart enough to know that. It's why we are here. Not to try and steam roll everyone that our way is the only way and everyone else is dumb for not realizing that. You cannot afford to ignore the reality of where the web is, where your business model is, it's perception in the business world, and what is important to businesses these days.

If you don't grow up and get that through your head, you are in for some serious hardships in business and in life and are going to waste a lot of time and money. I wouldn't know so much about it if I hadn't already been through it back in the days when I had the same little piss ant attitude that you have whenever someone challenged or disagreed with me, and I thought all of my not so well thought out ideas were million dollar ventures ( no pun intended).

You got off easy here. I'm actually one of the nice guys, and we really all are here to talk business, exchange ideas and help people. On our own time. For free. So you were never going to get away with those insulting cheap shots. A lesser forum would have just banned you and moved on. But silly me, I love a vigorous discussion of the issues, especially when the other person doesn't do their homework and thinks they are going to BS their way through it.

Consider it a lesson learned. Welcome to the real world Shawn Clarkson.