eating it

[huggytree]

I had a job yesterday where i installed the plumbing fixtures on a remodeled bathroom.

everything was new except the toilet. I warned the homeowner that when a toilets sits it drys out the seals & they shrink , so its common that they leak...$100 for a new 'basic' toilet....homeowner said NO (old toilet was a $40 toilet)

Sooooo ...i install the old toilet...it leaks.....seal from tank to bowl drips...i get out my socket set...1/2 turn......craaaacccckkkkk...tank cracks in 1/2...water everywhere...

who's fault is it?

builder picks up a new one...i detatch and reinstall for free....at first i say that homeowner should pay....this morning i call back and say ill pay.

builder says homeowner was upset and its a good thing to work with us on it...$108 is my cost....builder is my favorite customer.

correct decision?

it hurts when its not really my fault...but from the homeowner point of view it was....

how to solve this problem in the future?

if it leaks cost to rebuild? $200-300 to go get parts and rebuild instead of tightening...maybe next time they will buy new.

[vangogh]

I think you made the right decision. It's not a big loss to keep your favorite customer happy. You'll get the money back many times over.

The only things I can think to prevent this in the future probably aren't good solutions, but here they are. You could simply refuse to install the toilet telling the customer you know that it will cause problems. Granted the customer won't be happy, but you won't be dealing with a cracked tank. The other option is to have the customer sign some kind of waiver absolving you of any problems before installing the toilet. Again not an ideal solution and one that probably leaves the customer unhappy.

Otherwise I think all you can do is your best to explain the potential problem. Maybe even a few times so the customer is prepared for something happening before it does. You could actually share the story of this current customer.

[huggytree]

i could just tell them i dont repair toilets, so if it leaks i will turn the water off & drain it and you can call my repair friend to fix it for $200+

i dont have a problem saying that when its a direct homeowner job, but a job for a builder i wouldnt say that. it comes off as an attitude thing...which i do have....i dont like people saving $100 on a $20,000 project at my expense...i dont like reusing plumbing fixtures..its always a problem.....garbage disposals are another thing i wont reuse...i put a disclaimer in the bids that if it leaks i walk away....i guess i need to add toilets to that list....when homeowner want to reuse faucets i refuse to reuse the drains (i supply new)...its all about being a fairly new business and making policies to cover myself.

if i tell a builder that i dont rebuild toilets they may find a new plumber who will remodel that bathroom AND rebuild that toilet....why get 2 plumbers involved will be their thinking. i need to be careful not to Over cover myself and lose business from it.

i left this same post on a plumbing website and someone came up with a scarier situation...it didnt crack until a few seconds after i tightened it....what if it would have cracked 1 week later, what if no one was home....$40,000 in damage from flooding the house?...who'd be responsible?

Ive had a couple of jobs this year where a homeowner refused my advice and I installed something that i knew was wrong on some level.....i need to start getting the homeowners to sign off on refusing my advice..thats a new form i need to create on Microsoft Word this weekend and keep several copies on my van.

[vangogh]

I wonder if simply mentioning the waiver form would get some people to change their minds and let you install the new toilet. I understand the position you're in, but you also shouldn't be put into the position of having to install something you know is going to have problems. Even if it's not your fault the customer is going to see it as your fault. It's a no win position for you.

[Steve B]

I like the idea of a waiver form when working with older equipment. It is a great way to cover yourself for things like this. I'm sure a 1/2 turn wouldn't have broken the toilet except for the fact that it was old and probably already tightened down as much as possible in the past. But, since the homeowner wasn't turning the wrench and a professional agreed to do it - it can only be considered your responsibility without such a waiver in advance.

[phanio]

Waivers are good from the business point of view but not good from the customers point of view - they send up red flags thinking you work is not that good.

Instead of saying you don't repair toilets - why not tell your builder or the homeowner that you ONLY work with new material - unless YOU determine that older materials can be substituted - you can say you are looking out for them and will try to save them as much as you can (now and in the future).

[phanio]

One more thing - mark up the cost you are out and your labor - makes a good write off.

[greenoak]

i think you did the best thing....maybe if you forsee something like this you could warn them more and get them on board with the bad decision more.. but in general i would play it by ear and refuse when you have to or at least push harder on who has to pay if it goes bad..........and not try to lay on lots more rules...
...my carpenter would avoid this in this way...... he would have said ...ill do it but if it doesnt work you will have to pay....making the results clear and my responsibility before the thing broke.. ...and i would believe him...but thats because of a long and good relationship...
ann

[huggytree]

thanks Greenoak,

i like your idea the best..lay out ahead of time who will pay if something happens...

too many rules= someone no one will work with.

its still bothering me how he got a free toilet & 1/2 hour of free labor......ill remember this one for a while and hopefully not make the same mistakes. The builder called me today, so they are still happy with me...better to lose $108 and gain/hold $100,000 i always say!

[Steve B]

You're looking at it wrong. Don't let it bother you ... look at it as an opportunity to grow your business. Who wouldn't pay $108 to solidify a relationship with a great, potentially on-going customer? I've dropped 10 times that much on advertsing with zero results. You got a bargain! You should break more toilets!!!