hired a helper for cash today....didnt go well

[huggytree]

had an ex-plumbing apprentice help me today...he ran the gas lines while i did some water pipe....he over tightened the pipe to the waterheater and cracked the gas valve for the heater....$350 for the part...plus 2.5 hours locating it...almost had to tell the homeowner they would have to wait 5 days w/o hot water....or pay $750 for a new waterheater...i got lucky and found the part at 4pm tonight...

ive had this guy help me before w/ digging ditches....he was a good worker.....he did the gas line in about 3x slower than me.....he did about 1 hours work in 3.5 hours and then broke the part....not a good day

i paid him $80 also for his work...didnt know he broke it until after he left...otherwise i wouldnt have paid him

im not liking having an employee right now..

he was the guy i was considering hiring full time if i can snag a few more builders...now im leaning toward a journeyman instead again....he was an apprentice years ago, but now is a factory worker..

anyone else have a good employee story to make me feel better?
(i lost $ today)

[Patrysha]

Yikes! Overtightened and then left you to discover it? Not good employee material for sure, and potentially the reason he is an EX apprentice.

But...what do you really expect for $20/hour? Maybe prices/wages are different down there and that's not as low a rate there as it would be here...but around here you wouldn't be able to find anybody with any experience for that rate, just a labourer/grunt who you'd have to give explicit instructions to and wouldn't leave unsupervised for very long.

[greenoak]

sounds awful....and you could count yourself LUCKY you didnt hire him full time....
i have a worker who didnt charge a customer for a 250$$ item , it was on a credit card on about a $3000 purchase, 2 sisters on one card so kind of complicated .........and they didnt call back to make it right....we think they didnt do the math.,.....i wouldnt have on personal buys... ..... and when they return we will be able to get the money....they seemed respectable and were in an escalade...
it was a couple months ago

[Spider]

He was an ex-apprentice, you said. Apprenticeships are a training position. What were you teaching him by leaving him alone on any aspect of installation? If that wasn't why you hired him, then his previous miniscule plumbing knowledge was immaterial. Either way, he should not have been left unsupervised. This loss is on you, Dave, not on your hired help. You asked a laborer to do a plumber's job and it backfired on you. This is the very thing you have been complaining that other plumbers do.

General priciple to bear in mind: If you pay as little as possible, you'll find only the least capable employees. If you pay as much as possible, you will attract the best employees. The good part is, you get to decide which type of employee you want to attract.

You want a good employee story to cheer you up. Here's one -- I paid my guys the going rate plus a little, and I paid them the lion's share of the profit we earned as a company. We hired a plumber because he was the brother of one of our plumbers, and put him in the same crew. Some time later, the crew - including the man's brother - asked us to remove him because he wasn't pulling his weight. They knew better than we did that he was costing the company money. So they wanted him fired.

[Steve B]

I've got a few similar stories - don't give up. I had a guy who didn't know how to put a wire nut on a splice. You might have to work through a couple situations like that before you find the right person.

It's a good idea to just try someone out for a day or two before you make any committment, but, even if you're just trying someone out, you need to do it legally. If he performed work for you - you needed to pay him even if he screwed something up. Just because you paid him in cash doesn't mean he isn't covered by Worker's Comp and every other labor law.

[huggytree]

i was working within 10-15' of him the whole time...he was not unsupervised or left alone...i was right there

i cant watch how he does every joint...i was told by his dad that he is very capable on gas lines...it was less than 15' of gas pipe and only like 10 joints....very simple....obviously not simple enough..

$22 cash is a decent price for a apprentice....$50 is the typical sidejob price of a journeyman...

im fighting hiring someone even part time because of unemployment taxes...anyone i hire even part time i learned will affect my unemployment tax....

i worked 180 hours 2 months in a row (in the field)

typical month is only 100 hours

probably 30-40 hours in office time added onto that.

i dont see it as enough hours to hire someone yet...i think i should be in the 200 hour range for a few months in a row before i hire someone...otherwise they will be working and ill just be sitting....ill lose $ instead of making it....i need to be working 100+ hours while the employee works 160 hours....i need close to 260 hours a month to hire someone

last week i had 2 days that i only worked 4 hours each......im not ready to hire.

i should be back to 100-120 hour months for a month or 2 now.

another sign that i need to hire is when i start losing jobs because i cant schedule them quick enough..so far thats only happened 2-3 x ever....all small jobs i didnt mind losing

i think large jobs need to return too...jobs that take a few days..this way when 1 job is done they can move over to the next job...right now multi day jobs dont exist too often...maybe 2-3 a month....i need it to be 2-3 a week..

[greenoak]

ditto with steve on the legal part!!!
IMHO....YOU CANT FIX SLOW.... i d use some slow people....on piecework basis or by the job....
another sign you need to hire is if you are frazzled and in a bigger rush all the time...
i hate the hiring process.....but if you can work with someone for a day or 2 that should tell you a lot..

[Steve B]

Sorry - but working in close proximity to someone is not supervising them. It's your business, your family's income, and your reputation on the line - I would take it a lot more seriously when you're having an unknown person doing something as important as hooking up a gas line! It may be easy, but it can be catastrophic if not done correctly. Also, someone's father is typically not going to be the most objective opinion. If it were me, I'd have had him demonstrate a few joints before I turned him loose. Then, I'd go back and inspect each joint until I was satisified that he was capable of working without supervision.

[huggytree]

Steve B, your probably right...thats why its stupid to hire someone for short term...im hiring him to save me time....saving time should be a longer term goal...at first it should be about skills/quality....

how many hours in the field a month should i be at before i hire someone?....100 in the field makes me a bit of money.....any less and im losing

im still thinking it has to be over 200 hours in the field before i consider hiring full time....maybe 220.....that would give me 100 hours in the field and the worker will probably do 120 hours worth of 'my' work in 160 hour range....

i need to start coming up with a trigger....some things which help me make the decision to hire....when i hit certain goals then i hire...

if i hire someone and have 4 hour work days i lose money (badly) and have an employee who's not happy either...

maybe i should just bite the bullet and start hiring part time a couple of days a week....just to get someone broken in, so when it gets busy again i can trust this person to work well.

this guys father is a master plumber and he does work sidejobs with his kids...i trust his opinion...he is smarter than me when it comes to plumbing and i call him for advice all the time....but maybe he doesnt know his kids abilities enough.....because he's not a business owner i dont think speed is something he thinks about......anyways it wasnt supposed to be the kid....it was supposed to be the masterplumber father....this was a quick decision i made when he said he couldnt make it....at first i did say 'no'....but then said yes....i should have went with my gut

[Business Attorney]

I'll throw this out: maybe over-tightening the pipe was just a one-time mistake that anyone can make. Of course, it doesn't help that it was done on the very first job he did for you, but everyone makes mistakes at some point. Golden Glove infielders bobble balls, star quarterbacks throw interceptions, excellent doctors miss a diagnosis, even the weatherman misses a forecast now and then

It may not be a mistake a master plumber would make, but even if you only hire master plumbers, you are going to find that employees do make mistakes. That is simply a fact of having employees. I have had lot's of employees over the years - secretaries, bookkeepers, IT staff, as well as attorneys. I can't think of a single one that didn't make mistakes. Some made too many, or made the same mistake several times without learning from the mistake. They had to go. Others did generally good work and grew with their mistakes. They were keepers.

If you want someone who NEVER makes a mistake, then I doubt that even a master plumber will meet your expectations. If that is the case, you are probably better off working alone.