Restaurant Tipping Question

[KingHippo]

Here's the scenario. I live about two miles away from a chain restaurant (not fast food) that I like a lot. I decided that in order to save some money I would do the "curbside" or to go thing there. So instead of them delivering food to me (something they don't even offer) that means I have to get in my car and drive there and pick up the food at the hostess stand or bar and then take it home. Now here's the issue. Normally you tip 15 - 20% if you sit down at a restaurant and get served. Are you supposed to tip the bartender or hostess if you are picking stuff up inside the restaurant? How about if it is true "curbside" and a guy takes the food out to your car for you?

P.S. This was probably covered on Seinfeld but I think I missed that episode.

[Evan]

I think these "curbside" things came out post-Seinfeld, so it may not have been addressed. Drats!

Call me cheap, but I don't even think tipping is necessary. The issue becomes, as you raise, if you frequent that restaurant. Because they're going to know "Joe Schmo" called in again and you're not going to tip. Just the opposite can happen, you leave a tip, so they expect the same amount -- which can be bad if you're a generous tipper.

I don't think a percentage really should be assigned, as it depends. A $100 order for the office -- is that worth a $10 / $15 / $20 tip for them to walk it to your car? I think tipping should be for actual service, not bringing something over to your car. You certainly don't tip the McDonald's worker who brings your burger over to your car after they mess something up with your order and tell you to pull forward -- so how is this different?

If a tip was to be justified, I could see a buck or two, but that's it. I'd probably only give it if the weather was crappy -- raining/snowing. But if it's 75 and sunny -- you know they're enjoying the outdoors as much as anybody.

Plus typically the people who bring these things to your car are the hostesses which are paid more then the wait staff.

[orion_joel]

I frequent a coffee shop, i always tip, but only every the change, which from a cup of coffee I get 40cents change and throw it in the tip jar.

If it was curbside, and say i order $18 worth of food i would just give them a $20 and they can have the change. Pretty much for me it comes down to i hate carrying around coins so if i can get rid of them i do. All up in a week i may tip $2.80, but i figure better $2.80 in their tip jar for the staff then sitting in 20cent pieces in my pocket.

I used to keep every bit of change at one point, and it does quickly build up over a couple of months.

[Steve B]

I don't think it is necessary to tip in the situation you descibe.

[billbenson]

Look at it differently. I suspect tipping started as a thank you for good service. It slowly became customary. As it became customary, the restaurant owners dropped wages. I believe today, restaurant service personnel can be paid below the minimum wage, because the IRS knows they make it up in tips. They are supposed to report the tips to the IRS. Do you really think they report all of the tip income?

Another issue. The servers are really not a skilled professional except perhaps in fine restaruants. A friend was a waiter for years. He has seen drinks served with urine. That does happen if the server doesn't like you from time to time.

Its an abusive industry. In a busy restaurant, the chefs and cooks (there is a big difference) work their butts off in a high presure environment. The dishwashers and other service help are underpaid and frequently illegal immigrants. The wait staff out front is underpaid because you are expected to subsidize their salary. It gives by and large non skilled workers an expectation of a tip.

This is an industry issue. Taxi's are the same way. A friend was a taxi driver until just recently when he just got tired of it and other drivers had been shot or robbed. Company didn't care. Get shot on the job, you are fired and no help for medical. They really make no money without tips.

Forgot to mention the restaurants that include the tip in the bill and many people double tip not realizing it

So it's complicated and not an easy call. I'd say, tip according to what whoever you are dealing with should make as an hourly salary. 20% for restaurant service seems high to me. I pretty much tip 10% and then modify that on the quality of service.

[KristineS]

For the curbside stuff or when I go in and pick it up, I don't tip. It's a small transaction and no one really had to do anything other than take my money and give me my food.

I'm a very good tipper when I go to a sit down meal though. I think being a member of the waitstaff is a very tough job, so I will tip very well if the service is good.

[cbscreative]

I can offer some additional insight as someone who actually was a waiter at one time. First though, let me address the original question. I would generally tip even for takeout in many cases. I know these people are not making a lot of money, so tips are appreciated. If you frequent the takeout place, the point about getting better service and food if they know you will tip is very, very accurate.

Even though it was many years ago when I was a waiter, I still cringe at the attitude that it is not skilled labor or a "real job" like many people view it. I have done many types of work in my life, and being a waiter was the most challenging of any jobs I have ever done. Add to that the prevailing attitude that the job is "menial" and I can understand the temptation to lash back like some servers would do. I worked 3½ years in that field. I did not witness anything vindicative toward customers, but we certainly could have had reasons, so it doesn't surprise me that some people would go that far.

As for the comments about about pay, yes, servers make below minimum wage as a base pay. It was approx half minimum wage when I was doing it. The tips were shared with whoever was bartending, and also with bussers, so servers did not keep all the loot. In addition to that, there were "side duties" so the server usually spent an extra 30-60 minutes after being taken off the floor (no longer given new tables to serve as business slows down) doing these side duties before leaving. Servers who were assigned "closing" were "on the floor" until close, and they would have closing duties.

Bottom line, without tips, server pay sucks. Fortunately, there are people who have either done the job (most former servers are very generous tippers) or people who are just generous and appreciative, so the pay usually balances out. Of course, that depends on how busy the restaurant is and the type of patrons you are getting.

I should also comment on the hostess making more money. Sure, as far as I know, they make minimum wage, and the places where I worked did not share tips with them. So yeah, they're really raking in the bucks.

I agree that it is a very abusive industry. I would go so far as to say it is a very good thing I was already a Christian before doing that job. It could easily have made me an atheist otherwise. I also learned a lot about people who call themselves Christian. You would expect the best from them (which I did), but I quickly learned that I would much rather wait on a heathen. Catholics are almost always an exception, I really enjoyed waiting on them. It's the majority of protestants that bring shame to the faith in the way they treat restaurant servers. BTW, I am protestant, so that job was a real eye opener.

If we have any other people here who have been servers, I'm sure the perspectives could prove interesting. Everything you think know will be shaken if you ever try that job. If you are idealistic, kiss your idealism goodbye. Just be careful not to get cynical, it would be very easy to do.

[orion_joel]

I was actually under the impression that the term TIP stood for "To Insure Promptness", however please do correct me if i am wrong.

If this is the case then i think the entire point is starting to be missed, very few places i have gone, give good service because they think they may get a tip. More often you will find the one waiter/waitress, who gives good service no matter what, and so often you see they are the ones the customer stop to give a tip to.

One guy i know like this, has many times had customer tip him $50 even when he was working a local coffee shop. While others there i do not think have ever had a tip directly given at all, and the funny thing is they wonder why but never do any different then the absolute minimum.

[billbenson]

Steve, when I said it was by and large non skilled labor, near me there is a 4 star ish restaurant, a few steak and ales and chillis sort of places. Also coffee shops. Except for the coffee shop, all of these places try to employ cute college age girls for wait staff. The Mexican restaurant tries to employ Latinos, but there aren't vary many legal Latinos in our area ton of illegal ones working in back. The coffee shops all seem to hire middle aged hags for wait staff. They get you your food, but they aren't generally pleasant or cute. They are probably also the only grouping that make a career out of it. These people are pretty much order takers.

Now in San Francisco, New York, and most major cities, the above doesn't fly. I would assume you worked in restaurants where you had to be professional, hence your objection to my comment. I spent a good percentage of my career wining and dining clients in fine restaurants. Those waiters, by and large were professionals. My friend who was a waiter in a 4 star restaurant was as well. He would read a table and either play the sedate formal waiter or have the entire table laughing depending on the situation. He was very salesy. He got good tips.

It would bother me if tips were shared other than with the bartender. I said I tip 10% and then adjust from there. It's really rare that I would tip less than 15%. It would really bother me if my tip didn't go directly to the person I was tipping but rather averaged over the wait staff. I'm tipping the person that served me for the service they provided, also realizing they get paid a lousy basic salary and its a hard job.

[cbscreative]

For clarity, I was referring to places above the average line. I worked for a more middle ground place for 3 years which I would classify as a couple notches or so higher than a place like Applebee's. For 6 months before getting out of that work, I worked for a place that was a little higher end, but no stars in the rating.

I always did well for whatever the circumstances were (some nights were just plain "dead"). Both places did a pretty decent job of training and treated us as professionals. I credit them for at least placing a value on wait staff and trying to communicate how important our role was. We were not "order takers" and they continually emphasized that.

In spite of how trying it was at times, it was a time of great personal growth for me, and I am glad for the expereince. For the most part, I really enjoyed the job, but it was more challenging than I would have thought, and it had its moments of bitter frustration. At the end of the shift though, it was over. You got to leave it all behind because it no longer mattered.

It's because I cared and poured myself into the job that I did well. People can sense the difference, and they generally respond well to it. Even if I thought that the tip would be "lousy" I still did my best anyway. After you do that job a while, you get a pretty accurate sense of what to expect, and it usually proves correct. I figure even the lousy tips were probably good in the minds of the people leaving them, and better than they would have been if I slacked on service.

The ones that really did bother me are the ones that bother any server. It was rare, but on occasion, I did get "stiffed" (the industry term for no tip). I know there are people out there who don't believe in tipping, but I don't believe they should go to a place where tipping is expected. They are free to have that belief, but to exercise it in a restaurant where they know it is common courtesy is not a "right." They may think of it as a "statement" but I put them in the same category as a thief. They are not hurting the restaurant at all, so their statement is null and void. The only thing they really accomplish is stealing from another human being who rightfully earned wages they refuse to pay.

Don't even get me started on cheap tips with a gospel tract. That opens the door for all kinds of shameful behavior perpetrated on servers (and others) in the name of God. If there is any group of people who should be especially generous, it ought to be Christians. My expereince as a server taught me a lot about why people reject the faith when they see the kinds of things I have seen. I can't and won't defend the behavior of some of my fellow believers, but I will say that God has nothing to do it. It stems from human tradition polluting the Bible. That's nothing new though, even Jesus had scathing criticism for the religious people of his day.

I hope no one reads too much into that or misunderstands it. I hate religious Christianity, but there is the other group of real Christians. When disaster stikes, they are there responding generously. They are involved in every imagineable type of cause to ease human suffering. They give their time and their money, and they treat everyone with respect. It's the other group (the majority unfortunately) that judge rather than help. I am not alone in my disdain, Jesus told us a clear parable about sheep and goats. But I did want to clarify my point a little further.

OK, I hope to keep my posts shorter now that you all know a bit more about me.